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Lets solve HP washing.

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by 13ad, Apr 5, 2018.

  1. 13ad
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    13ad Slime

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    Hp washing is important. It should NOT go away as it is a key component in maplelegends. But. It should not restrict gameplay to a point where it influences your abillity to have fun. So lets start out with this very common answer people have said as a solution to hp washing. Keep in mind i am a new player so i may be ignorant of some stuff

    1. You dont have to hp wash.

    You dont have to use potions, you have a chair. just sit for a few hours to regen then get back to it.

    Does this make sense?

    You dont have to use skills. You have an attack button. Use it. Come on people, this kind of answer is bull sh*t. Especially when end game bosses REQUIRE you to hp wash to even fight them. Are you implying that we simply dont do bosses like horntail? "You dont have to boss so why do it".

    We play games to have fun. We choose to play certain classes because its fun. So when we are restrained from being able to choose a class that we want to play, it completly unmotivates us.

    2. If you dislike legends way of hp washing so much, why not quit and play a different server?

    First of all, i highly doubt legends staff wants players to leave off to a different server. And honestly, legends does not have the best features, i can tell you that for sure. But the community by far makes up for this. The events are well thought out, our voices are heard, the gms are close to the players, and the players are so kind and welcoming(shout out to guildless). But there is always room for improvement.

    Think about it this way, humans get bored fast. Thats why things like phones, game consoles, and movies are always updating. They are always giving us something new to explore and enjoy. Sure, we can play a mage for 5 months voting without spending a single drop of nx, but im pretty sure most of us would get tried real fast and quit. Its simply not enjoyable. Its a terrible experience.

    So when people are given with the solution of "play a mage for a few months then play the class you want once you have enough nx" By then, we'd probably move on to something else thats more enjoyable.

    3. What do we do with old players who disagree with fixing hp washing?

    Sorry. What. Do we go back in time and refund cavemen with guns because they had to get food the hard way with their hands and bow and arrows? What. Do we take away our declaration of independence and constitution because people in the past didnt have that luxary of rights?

    Come on. Dont be selfish.

    BUT.

    We should not make ap resets tradeable
    We should not increase nx vote gain
    We should not need to change boss hp or hp gain per level. Its simply too much coding and work.

    4. Hp washing is an end game thing its good and should be required.

    It keeps progression in check makes players play longer. yes. But when its a nessesity to such an extent to which you have the funds for int gear, leech, have a 200 lvl mage. And all you have to do now is afk for 5 months yes. Its a problem. End game shoudent rely on having to hopelessly wait to gain nx. Yes there are events like the one going on right now, but 5 hours for a single rng drop golden ticket for ONE AP reset is just unacceptable.

    5. Well why am I doing this?

    Im a new ish player, been voting for the past month but just recently started to actually PLAY the game itself. I did a lot of research on what hp washing is, how to do it, etc. What really set me off was when i didnt have enough ap resets for me to level. I just simply could not progress. I could not play the game. I had to wait 4 days to simply level. Basically for each level up =5 ap = 3.1*5 = 4 days of voting for 5 ap resets. So im only allowed to level every four days. WTF. come on what is this.

    "While you wait play mage". Please, we just talked about this.

    It saddens me even more when new players who want to play for the nostalga play nl or a class that requires hp washing and cant even boss because their hp is too low. Even if they hit level 200 it would be still too low. When they look for a solution theyre hit with " oh remake the class". Come on. Thats easy to say but its devastating to the player with how much time and effort they put in into their character.

    6. A fix.

    I honestly dont have a good solution. And no one has for the past 3 years, but we can start by allowing ap resets to be gained somehow, at a steady rate enough for players to progress (make it UNTRADEABLE). This can happen through events, (the event right now is good for meso but horrible for people trying to get ap resets as mentioned, golden ticket rates are way too low especially for a new player without having a huge mage ulti one hit kill spam) no. we should not increase the drop rate but rather make it obtainable through puff exchange?

    The thing is, we cant make ap resets farmable from mobs because we want to decrease the power mages have. Theyre already op. Having a kind of daily where ALL players of ALL levels 30+ can participate is good. We should be able to play a class that we want, without having to play mage as a first class.

    We also need to have a way to allow for players to participate in bossing without the need to restart their character. Because they forgot about hp washing or didnt know about it until late in the levels.
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Edit: Hmm. So a lot of people disagree with the significance of hp washing. (Its not that important) some bosses, some classes are just not ment to do. Which i guess translates to if you want to do toad boss. Dont play nl/bm/corsair/marksman. Which i guess is ok?.........uh yeah.

    Kim has informed me that theres a "huge" nerf on drop rate of golden/hunting gatch when using mage ulti.

    Using nl as our class of choice, Minimum 5.6k hp to survive with hb. Using chews hp wash calculator 4.8k hp without hp washing at all by level 200. So hp washing still is required no matter what even if you hit MAX level. Sure thats fine. Moving on according to guides 65~ ap washes 50 base int 115 ap resets needed. Useing fresh ap. 356500 total nx needed. 72 days of voting. Well i guess two and a half months of voting without using any nx is ok.

    I think people are not seeing the point im trying to make. I think i said it pretty well in my reply so ill pin it here as well.
    WHAT IM TRYING TO GET AT.

    The problem for me, is having to wait 4 days to get enough ap to level up and use the fresh ap. If ap resets were just as benificial using level up ap, to which it didnt matter if you leveled, that would be a totally different story. But hp washing everything at level 155 using ap resets is totally different than using ap resets from 35-155 as you level. (correct me if im wrong with using lvl up ap vs ap resets) Im not sure why people keep saying i want to take hp washing away because literally in the first sentence i say hp washing is needed and is important and should NOT be taken away....the only problem i have with hp washing is it limits you from being able to level because you need to use the fresh ap. You cant simply do all the hp washing later in the future when youve saved up a steady amount of nx.

    Example:
    A level 200 player should be able to hp wash to 30k without having to restart their character because they didnt use level up ap. But then that brings up the question of what to do about minimum mp etc etc....

    THESE "SOLUTIONS" ARE NOT "SOLUTIONS" i cant stress this enough.

    *Play a warrior class.
    *Play a mage class.
    *Play a different game dont play legends.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
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  2. jlimlim
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    jlimlim Stone Golem

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    No one said HP Washing is a must. Its more of a luxury for those that are willing to wait. You just need 5.5k HP on a range class to fight horntail which can be obtainable easily with a couple of blood wash/ normal wash. FYI, not all bosses are meant for every class. You dont see warriors at anego huh.
    My suggestion to You, play a warrior class. You dont need to wash to be able to survive those bosses.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. OP
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    13ad
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    13ad Slime

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    Hp washing is not a must. Correct. So is potting why do it? Lets play a class i dont want to play. Ill enjoy that. Do you kinda see where im getting at? Lol not trying to sound mean....i kinda went over this too if you go back and read carefully
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. jlimlim
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    jlimlim Stone Golem

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    What you're encouraging is a party with 4 nightlords 1 bm and 1 bishop. No one's gonna play the other classes if that happens.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. jlimlim
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    jlimlim Stone Golem

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    Nightlords are already broken as fk in this patch. And now you wanna remove hp washing which is one of the only downside of NL (which can be solve easily by just waiting and voting).
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. OP
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    13ad
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    13ad Slime

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    You must have read a different fourm topic. No where did i say i wanted to remove hp washing LOL. Can you please re read my post again for the second time..... maybe theres a language barrier or misunderstanding. Sorry.
     
  7. OP
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    13ad Slime

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    No ones going to play the other classes? What? I know many people who play the class theyre playing because its fun. Its enjoyable not because its number 1 dps.
     
  8. jlimlim
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    jlimlim Stone Golem

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    Pretty sure removing and 'dont have to HP wash' implies the same thing.
     
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  9. OP
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    13ad
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    13ad Slime

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    Ah, i found our miscommunication haha! Read the first intro. "So lets start out with this very common answer people have said as a solution to hp washing." Hope that clears things up :)
     
  10. jlimlim
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    jlimlim Stone Golem

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    If you're lazy and cant wait. Go play another server.
    Definitely we all know there's a minority that does that. But what about the majority of the population? What you're suggesting isn't gonna favour the melee classes as much as the range classes.
     
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  11. OP
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    13ad
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    13ad Slime

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    Wait what even am i suggesting?
     
  12. OP
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    13ad Slime

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    Im also going to stop you right there. Im not "lazy and cant wait" oml did you even read my post Q.Q LEGIT READ #2
     
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  13. Rasenganjedi
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    Rasenganjedi Slimy

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    Good luck getting a solution, since many have already been written and 1 half doesn't want it and the other does.
    Cause not everyone is gonna agree on 1 thing.
    Especially with HP washing which is such a stupid mechanic which shouldn't be in the game in the first place.
     
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  14. Ayderac
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    Ayderac Pink Teddy

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    It's not about being lazy, I wanted to start and play a NL here because that's the class I've always loved playing. I started out and then saw that I would NEVER be able to boss with that character.

    Welp, one week down the drain and delete it. So now I'm forced to play a bishop, why? Because I'm lazy and don't want to vote? Not really, I could bear the fact that I would have to wait several months before being able to boss.

    WHAT I CAN NOT LIVE WITH is the crazy funding required to be able to play this character "normally". So.. I had to FIRST LEVEL A FUCKING MAGE to be able to level (leech) the stupid int lord. Which basically is not what I wanted to do.

    I wanted to play a thief/night lord the normal slow way and still be able to boss sometime, I'm not saying I would have to be doing zak/ht my first month. I'm not afraid to put in the work. It's just retarded that you first have to level a mage to get funds, then use that mage to level your other character because it's just too weak to enjoy playing.

    Something needs to be done about HP washing, people should be able to play the class they want without having to make a mage first.

    I don't really see the particular washing as something that would solve it, I'd rather see something you can farm ingame. Perhaps doing daily stuff for a looooong time to get rings with much HP, similar kind of system by farming/dailys etc for ring HP scrolls. I see hard to come by rings as the best solution as it encourages actual gameplay and not just voting.

    If you're really serious about your washing then you can still make the stupid intlord and get 30k hp, but for us normal people that play casually and wants to have fun whilst playing (leveling another character to level the character you wanna play, that's not playing in my eyes).

    The point where you mentioned that every party will have 4x NL 1x BM 1x Bishop is not really a valid argument. Pirate classes can do good damage, speed infusions, other classes are much cheaper to make then and people will do it because it requires less funds etc. I don't think this will be an issue at all tbh. People tend to play the class they wanna play anyways.

    TL;DR I think washing needs to change some way, you should be able to start out with the character you wanna play without having to add a lot into int and then vote for 8 months. Enough hp to make at least Zakum and HT should be able to aquire ingame with a lot of effort.

    I would love to see a feedback from the GMs regarding this.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
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  15. Ayderac
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    Ayderac Pink Teddy

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    Very well written post by the way, hope this gets enough attention to be looked into by the staff!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Spiesyy
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    Spiesyy Mano

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    As another new player I kind of have some mixed feelings about this

    On one hand it's very annoying knowing that unless you how wash your character is never going to be as good as one who does. It's the same level of stretching game mechanics to the edge of exploitation that breeders in Pokemon use, only more wait time. It makes anyone who just wants to casually play feel pressured to do it as well or else they wouldn't be able to really play with anyone because they have a terrible character.

    On the other hand, screw it! It's your own damn character play it how you want it. Find some players who do the same and have fun with the game.

    I don't really consider not being able to play a certain boss. I mean in the normal MapleStory you wouldn't have been able to anyways right?
     
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  17. Velo
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    Velo Slime

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    HP washing wasnt really the intended game mechanic for maplestory. I could no longer find the post whereby a game designer (Neckson korea) who was part of the original team that design maplestory talked about some core gameplay mechanic. (the post is in Korean way way long ago in 2006 or 2007)

    He mentioned there was not such thing as HP washing in when they first design maplestory. It was the amount of the revenue Neckson earned through the sale of reset scrolls (it was about 50-60%o of revenue). The developer team actually wanted to rebalanced the bosses and hp gained for all the class but was strongly opposed during their quarterly meeting with top management. He revealed that the profit/loss forecast from business development team (CFO) strongly opposed the move because the projected lifespan of maplestory was 5-7yrs and changing/rebalancing has a drastic impact on the projected financial gain for the next fiscal years. The pressure was immense from higher up and they had to gave in. He also mentioned that the Grinding difficultly of maplestory was intentional as well, not as a game designer team point of view but mainly again from the business development unit. THe BDU wanted to lengthed the lifespan of maplestory by having player suffering the long grind and buying the 2x EXP.

    In my personal opinion reducing HP wash is certainly a big welcome. Lets look at it objectively rather than emotionally.
    1. All classes are not created equally, this the hard truth. Some are better at bossing while some are not. However every class should be able to do bossing.
    2. With regards to point 1, not able to boss means not able to enjoy the full content of the maplestory. Bosses are supposed to be a challenge but at the same time it should NOT lock a certain class out of it.
    3. Every class should be able to do bossing at in certain point in their entire 200 lvls of career. Again, some class can do it way way sooner, while some may have to delay it a couple of lvls. However, if within the entire 200 lvls, the class is unable to fight any of the boss, it is certainly serious game play mechanic flaw.
    4. Are boss meant to be soloed or as party? Again this drive the rational behind some players to HP wash.

    As my Personal Opinion, HP wash should be tonned down. Some players will always go for max-mining for their characters. There is noting wrong with that as well.
    I sincerely hope players can take a PARADIGM SHIFT with regards to HP washing.

    Lastly, my ideas on how to reduce HP washing.
    1. Give a base increase in HP when a character have completed a job advancement. Having 4 job advancements means there are 4 base HP gained through out the life span of the character.
     
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  18. Angbak
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    Angbak Timer

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    Hi 13ad, I understand that you're a new player who wants to play the job of your choice without being limited by an in game mechanic that serves no purpose at all. Now I also know that you may not agree with whatever I have to say as I'm a filthy player who started as a bishop and never understood the woes of hp washing until the stage where I can afford it . I have to say that you did point out a good point that merely asking new people to switch servers is just an excuse to shut them up and I'm occasionally guilty of that myself. However do let me explain the current situation to the best I can.

    Maplelegends is a v.62 maple. Most of us here play this for nostalgia sake. Personally, back in the old maple, I've never get a character past level 35, never had the chance to see zakum, never dared to go leafre, didn't even know about horntail let alone trying to kill it. Which was why the first time I saw characters who were over level 100, I was so impressed with it. I'm glad that ML has allowed me to level with relative ease and get to the stage where I can witness zakum, something which I've always wanted to do but couldn't back in old maple.

    Now where am I getting with this? Maplelegends motto is that YOU create your own story. Yes, hp washing is a choice, so is staying on maple island as an islander, so is remaking your entire character the first time you die, so is making a str mage. All of these have been done by people before. Not potting is a little extreme but if you really want to, why not?

    Now on to the real meat of the topic, HP washing. One thing that most people misunderstand about HP washing is that you NEED it because you will definitely reach the required level for HT. Unfortunately, even assuming that HP washing isn't in the game, you're likely to still need at least 5-6 months to get a NL, Corsair, BM/MM to even reach 155 if you're unfunded. Levelling just ain't as easy as you think it is.

    Unless you know you're definitely going for HT or toad, washing is just not required.

    On to your point about more ways to get AP reset, I'm going to use the new player argument here. So far, every event has had a slightly different method of getting them. During the valentine event which I assume that you weren't around, you were able to get 3 resets per lvl 30 character through a mini exploit. People were creating a ton of lvl 30 chars just to farm the resets

    Workarounds for a decently high level character:

    With hp equips, you can lower your hp requirement to about 5,200.

    HP eqp:
    100 hp deputy
    100 hp ring
    60 hp cape
    40 hp face accessory

    A NL hp at 155 is about 3578, so you'll need an extra 1622 hp or 90 washes.
    Assuming you only have 4 int at 70, you can afford to spend ap for the next few levels to raise it to 60. Borrowing int gears is an option which I often do for others .with decent int gears, you can raise your total int to 120~

    Now you only need another 90 levels which is level 160 in order to fully wash out. Yes you will suffer from having lower damage as your cape slot is being used, but it's a compromise you have to make.

    To end off this very long post, I'll have to say that yes I would like AP resets to be obtained in an easier and consistent way. But I only view that as an additional bonus. Bossing life ain't easy and people do quit before they reach that stage. Hp washing should only be done if you've fully thought things through and not merely because you're afraid of losing out on end game content . After playing for 9 months, I can honestly say that I've had the most fun talking to others and selling leech (yesh selling leech is fun F3) I hope that you'll find some insight from this post and do let me know if there's anything I miss out. Cheers! :)
     
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  19. OP
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    13ad
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    13ad Slime

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    Wow, thanks for the information! Really well written and opened my eyes. Players do tend to quit even before they hit horntail level because they cant stand the low exp rates. Ive probably not yet hit that exp gain struggle yet because im still in the lower levels which is why i think leveling is pretty easy. If it does take like 5 months to even get to horntail level, ill enjoy wacking the hell out of my shift key . Yes high 30k hp gain is totally a luxuary, but as you said even getting the minimal required hp to horntail requires a bit of washing. Which is ALRIGHT good!

    The problem for me, is having to wait 4 days to get enough ap to level up and use the fresh ap. If ap resets were just as benificial using level up ap, to which it didnt matter if you leveled, that would be a totally different story. But hp washing everything at level 155 using ap resets is totally different than using ap resets from 35-155 as you level. Ugh i hope you understand what im trying to say Lol.....(correct me if im wrong with using lvl up ap vs ap resets) thanks again for taking the time to share your stance on the situation. Im not sure why people keep saying i want to take hp washing away because literally in the first sentence i say hp washing is needed and is important and should NOT be taken away....the only problem i have with hp washing is it limits you from being able to level because you need to use the fresh ap. You cant simply do all the hp washing later in the future when youve saved up a steady amount of nx.(again, correct me if im wrong). Cheers!
     
  20. OP
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    13ad Slime

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    Agree! I think the main problem im trying to get at is players should be able to hp wash without having to wait 4 days to get enough ap resets to level and use fresh ap. For example

    A level 200 player should be able to hp wash to 30k without having to restart their character because they didnt use lev up ap. But then that brings up the question of what to do about minimum mp etc etc.... :)


    thanks for your post! Apperciate a well thought out response rather than the "go join another server because your lazy and cant wait"
     

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