Thief [Meltryllis] Big Boy HP Build For Night Lords

Washing has gone too far

 

Some aspects you could look into:

- The order in which you add into DEX first on the very first 4 lvls, you could swap it to do 1-6 into INT and then 6-10 into DEX (this way you get some extra lvls with INT and still have enough DEX to job advance).
- I would recheck some of the numbers or the way you're presenting them (e.g. 43-83 does not provide enough AP points to make 410 points into LUK).
- One method that is often overlooked for thiefs/archers is adding fresh AP into HP when you're increasing your INT points (provided you have enough MP to wash it out immediately).

There are other methods used to get an even more optimized use of your APs and using less NX. Contrary to other servers (especially the one where you're citing a guide), NX here is time-gated. That means that optimization is paramount.

Anyways, nice contribution! Hope you can keep building it up.

 

If you use this method properly, if you aim for ~400 base int, you should hit 7.5k hp by 120 with a shitton of mp leftover to wash to 30k.

This assumes you are washing every single fresh ap stat into either hp or mp wash until you hit your target base INT, then mp washing every stat until you reach your end-wash level.

Another note: this method only requires you to have the upfront NX of whatever it takes to reset to your desired base-INT past level 30. So if your target goal is 350 base int, you only need something like 200 ap resets worth of NX to begin this project since every point after can just be blood mp washed and then reset when you come upon the NX later.

 

Can you guys explain exactly what you mean by the method of:

"This assumes you are washing every single fresh ap stat into either hp or mp wash until you hit your target base INT, then mp washing every stat until you reach your end-wash level."
"- One method that is often overlooked for thiefs/archers is adding fresh AP into HP when you're increasing your INT points (provided you have enough MP to wash it out immediately)."

What exactly does this mean by this step by step? Level up, add into HP, reset into INT?

OP has target INT of 200, how does target int of 400 change things? Would it be possible to get a step by step similar to how OP has it?

Thanks, I'm very new to HP washing

 

When it says all AP in HP or LUK, how does it affect things depending on what I pick? What does the area under "after level 135" assume that I picked?

 

When you level up, let's say you gain 24 MP (for simplicity) as a thief. You still haven't hit your INT goal but since fresh AP is more efficient than stale, (excl. corsairs) you still want to maximize the amount of fresh AP used to minimize NX expenditures. Fresh AP is a limited resource so you should always wring as much as you can.

So assuming you started at 0 excess MP:
1. add 3 points into INT
2. add 2 points into HP
3. take the 2 points from MP (they share the same AP pool) and put it in HP.

The above applies for target INT of 400 as you want to maximize your gain. 400 base int is closer to efficiently getting 30k HP for NL than 200. If you efficiently use all your AP until ~180 you will end with a generous amount of MP.

It is all arbitrary as lv135 is the earliest people decide to wash out. Wouldn't recommend it unless you're voting on another account for the remake

 

What do you mean by for the remake, is that usually when people make a mistake with their characters?

I want to wash NL or BM/MM to 18750 but I'm not too sure of how to do it efficiently/correctly

I can vote for a couple hundred K NX before I start my character but what would I do from there?

 

Create your character rolling the dice for 10 int and 5 or more dex and ideally 4 str for the thief and 4 luk for the archer.

Add 5 int each level until you need to start adding dex to hit your required 25 dex at level 10 for the job advance.

After you have advanced to first job keep adding int until you reach your int goal (probably around 200 is most efficient). You can start using the extra mp you have gained for fresh hp washes after job advancing so fresh hp wash as much as you can at this point, add your fresh ap into int if you don't have enough mp.

Once you have reached your int goal start mp washing with every fresh ap. Then once you have reached the required hp/mp for your goals you can reset your int into main stat and fresh/stale wash the mp into hp.

That's pretty much it..

 

One fix - if you run out of excess MP, you should MP wash once so that you can keep HP washing. Continue this process and only MP wash if you have no excess MP to HP wash. You can check your excess MP using DRODS. Once you reach your target baseINT, you can convert fully to MP washing. This allows you to make use of all of your fresh AP from level 30 to end of wash level - ideally 140+. Your optimal baseINT will change depending on when your end of wash is.

Just because your MP wash isn't yielding maximum returns of MP doesn't mean you can't MP wash a bit earlier. You hit 200 INT before level 40 anyways, so MP washing at earlier levels is still pretty effective. Just keep it to its absolute minimum.

The only time you should be double washing is if you have excess NX and want to hit an earlier end of wash. For my 30k NL projects with an end of wash at level 140, I started double washing around level 65, I think. This will gimp your early HP gains and is fairly inefficient NX-wise (much more efficient to just prolong your wash till later levels), but it will generate you enough excess MP to slowly stale wash for more HP in the end.

 

Yea I did this myself too but it kindof depends how fast you are leveling/how much nx you have to spend. Wanted to keep it simple so left out the non essentials =)

 

The remake as in it's inevitable you'd want more hp once you finish washing x)

15.5k? = No hb toad
18.75? = 30k w/hb
19.xk = pb without hb
and so on until 30k
then you start complaining about mp draining too fast

 

Excess mp is nice.

 

From an NX perspective it's probably not as efficient as you envisioned since the cost of stats you put into MP to enable fresh washing must also be accounted for.

If i have 3 AP, 200 base INT, 0 excess MP:
I can add 1 AP into MP, resulting in 18 net MP at cost of 3100 NX. 18 MP is 27 HP (prorated for thief and archer) & NX/HP is 7750/27 (287.03) rather than ideally 3100/16 (193.75)

even worse if base INT is lower.

 

I used the calculator and posted the info below



Is this the correct procedure

I add into INT the entire way to 63 and do HP washes along the way whenever I have excess MP from the INT that I am adding.

From level 63 - level 104 I switch to adding into DEX while still HP washing whenever I get enough excess MP.

From 105-140, I use each from MP into MANA, then reset all excess MP into into DEX? Or would I reset it into HP?

Then at level 140, I would reset all of my INT down to 4 using 296 resets. After which I would just add all my AP on level up into DEX (From 141-200).

Would this result in my Marksman having 18,750 HP at level 175?


I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correction, thanks for the advice so far

 

I don't want to hijack the thread but I think it's better to learn the inner workings of washing instead of relying on a calculator. Calculators may not be fully NX efficient, universally applicable, or plainly break down.

 

Unless I'm missing your point, the 7750/27 to 3100/16 comparison is inconsistent - you're assuming cost to gain MP in the former calculation (MP wash + 1.5 fresh washes) while discounting it in the latter (stale wash only - where'd the MP come from for this conversion?). Most of your ability to stale wash as a standard comes from MP washing heavily anyways.

For your proposed situation of 3 AP, 200 base INT, 0 excess MP, I would MP wash twice to gain 36 MP and HP wash once, and end up with 203 base INT afterwards. It cost me 9300 NX to gain on ~18 hp and 24 MP, but it also gives me the opportunity to continue fresh HP washing in the next level as I build up my excess MP for future conversions. I'm basically frontloading my access to fresh HP washing and reducing the need for stale washing, hence preserving my mana pool. I'd much rather take a 18:12 conversion than a 16:12 in the long run. It also puts me in a fairly comfortable situation where my character isn't so squishy for things like zak, HTP, etc.

The alternative is to dump straight into INT and HP wash only with level up MP gain to preserve NX, but I'd prefer more access to MP overall, personally, and I think using fresh AP at the expense of NX is still my preferred route.

One clarification - I generally start my HP washing after 2nd job, so I have a good amount of excess MP from level up MP gain to work with. This allows me to HP wash comfortably and get by with mostly level up gains till I'm past 200 base INT (which comes fairly early at ~level 40), but this is highly dependent on access to INT gear, too.

Edit:
As for my suggestion to chano , I think you just need to determine two things - target base INT and end of wash level. The amount of NX you need upfront to start your character is however many APs are required to wash from level 30 to your target base INT. Anything after that, you can just pump directly into +MP and slowly mp wash into stat as you come upon the NX. This will make your character playable slowly over time. You'll have a shit ton of MP and a decent amount of HP. (This is assuming you're going to be leeching for the first ~120 levels)

 

Ideal scenario as mentioned since NX/HP should approach the number. Since leeching to 175-180 or even 200 is doable, a serious character should deem exp as trivial and focus only on NX. Under that scenario, NX is minimized by first expending what is most efficient and accounting for overhead of both the point used in stale washing as well as the base int.

edit:
220, 270, 320, 470 base int not accounting for int wash in/out & forgot to mention mp washing to fresh HP wash entails an extra step to wash AP into int.

The equivalent efficiency for fresh/stale combination with 200 base int NX/HP as below:
3100/((18*3/2)/(18/12+1+x/y))
where x is number of fresh mp washes and y number of fresh hp wash

 

Sure, if the goal is to create a 30k hp ASAP, NX can be seen as the ultimate gatekeeper and optimizing NX efficiency makes sense there. For practicality sake, I'd much rather have a 4-int character that has 30k potential - with playable HP and a fat mana pool that can slowly be converted into HP over time. It's not like there's any real rush to convert MP into HP from 20k+ anyways.

Not sure why a serious character should deem exp as trivial - there's still a cost to everything after all.