Thief [Night Lord] What Claw should I use? (i.e. Why you should always be DEXless)

As with my Dark Knight's What Spear should I use? thread, I'm not fully justifying my math here because it takes longer to explain that way. But you should come to the same conclusion if you want to go ahead and try it yourself.

Well, using some simple math I found for the Lucky 7 damage formula (yes, as far as I know it's the same for Triple Throw):
MAX = (LUK * 5.0) * Weapon Attack / 100
MIN = (LUK * 2.5) * Weapon Attack / 100
(L>confirmation from anyone that this formula is correct, as this entire thread depends on it.)

Now, before I go deeper into the math, I am going to state upfront that I will be intentionally overlooking some aspects. First, I will be overlooking weapon speed for the sake of simplicity (however, I will gladly later do the math to incorporate it). Secondly, I am going to ignore the fact that you can gain LUK from equipment as well as DEX; ergo, I am ignoring a potential trade of LUK gears which boosted your damage more for DEX gears to wear the higher level claws. Futhermore, I am overlooking the added complexity of skills such as Maple Warrior and Echo of a Hero.

So let's look at the formula. It appears there are two variables, LUK and Weapon Attack. However, there is actually only one variable: LUK. The reason is we can essentially remove the variable Weapon Attack factor based on the fact that the Weapon Attack difference between your respective DEXless and DEX requiring claws will be static. Your LUK, however, can change rapidly with each level.

Without going into too much detail on the mathematics/reasoning, comparing two claws will effectively come down to 2 things:
1) The effective "LUK loss" going from Claw A to Claw B.
2) The effective weapon attack gain going from Claw A to Claw B.

Here's the relevant formulas:
LUK loss = [Additional DEX required to equip Claw B] - (LUK on Claw B - LUK on Claw A).
AP required = LUK loss + (LUK loss) / ( [ATK on Claw B + Other Weapon Attack] / [ATK on Claw A + Other Weapon Attack] - 1 )

Calculating for AP required will give you the number which is the total usable AP you'll have to accumulate in order for it to become worth it to make the switch from Claw A to Claw B. By the way, this has nothing to do with DEXless or not, you can use this between any two claws!

To demystify this a bit, let's gather some claw data to use.

Night Raven's Claw, 40 weapon attack, +2 LUK.

Average Red Craven, 46 weapon attack, +6 LUK, requires 140 DEX.

Average Dragon Green Sleve, 50 weapon attack, requires 150 DEX.

Perfect Dragon Purple Sleve, 55 weapon attack, +9 LUK, requires 150 DEX.

We must also take into account that we gain weapon attack from other sources. Here are some common ones.
Ilbi Throwing Stars, 27 weapon attack.
Work Gloves, which can be scrolled for a varying amount of weapon attack.
Pink Adventurer Cape, 2 weapon attack.
Warrior Elixirs, +12 weapon attack.
Ciders, +20 weapon attack.
Onyx Apples, +100 weapon attack.

Let's create a few hypothetical scenarios.

Scenario 1: Noobie.
As a noobie, we'll still assume you have managed to get your hands on Ilbis, an Average Red Craven or Night Raven's Claw clean, and 8 attack Work Gloves. You use Warrior Elixirs. This gives you a static weapon attack increase of 47.

Scenario 2: Mid-range.
Now you're a mid-ranged Night Lord. You still have your Ilbis, but now you can upgrade to an Average Dragon Green Sleve and choose to scroll it for 60%s and probably pass at least 5. However, your DEXless claw gets the same bonus. You have 12 attack BWGs now, a 2 attack PAC, and you use Ciders. Now you also have a Zakum Helmet and HTP, lowering the DEX difference by 23. Therefore, you get a static weapon attack increase of 71.

Scenario 3: Pro.
You're the real deal now. You have super strong gears. Of course you have Ilbis. You're able to land a couple 30%s on a Perfect Dragon Purple Sleve and 60%+WS the remainder. Again you can do the same with your DEXless claw counter part. Your BWG is up to 16 weapon attack, your PAC up to 9 weapon attack, and please, you always use Onyx Apples. This gets you a static weapon attack increase of 172. Your Zakum Helmet is scrolled for DEX, your HTP is egged, and you can afford a good overall for DEX or LUK of equal caliber. This cuts the DEX difference by 60.

Spoiler: Scenario 1: Noobie

LUK loss = 115 - (6 - 2) = 111
AP required = 111 + (111) / ([46 + 47 / 40 + 47] - 1) = 111 + (111) / ([93 / 87] - 1) = 111 + (111) / (.07) = 111 + 1609.5 = 1720.5

Ergo, the Night Raven's Claw is better forever.

Spoiler: Scenario 2a: Mid-range training

LUK loss = 102 - (0 - 2) = 104
AP required = 104 + (104) / ([60 + 71 / 50 + 71] - 1) = 104 + (104) / ([131 / 121] - 1) = 104 + (104) / (.08) = 104 + 1258.4 = 1362.4

Ergo, the Night Raven's Claw is better forever.

Spoiler: Scenario 3: Pro

LUK loss = 65 - (11 - 4) = 58
AP required = 58 + (58) / ([75 + 172/ 60 + 172] - 1) = 58 + (58) / ([247 / 232] - 1) = 58 + (58) / (.06) = 58 + 897.06 = 955.06

Ergo, when your total usable AP is 956 or more, it is worth it to put your AP into DEX in order to make the switch from Night Raven's Claw to Perfect Dragon Purple Sleve.

TL;DR
As you can see, going DEXless is for the most part the superior option. Only in the very end game will you start to have to think about whether or not you should be switching over some of that LUK AP into DEX. This is because of how the formula works and how little weapon attack claws give. The boost from other sources is so great that it effectively "equalizes" their attack power by a lot, and LUK makes much more of a difference than it honestly should.

All that said, if you have any doubt, use the formula given to find your answer! By the way, I'll work on a calculator for this as well and update with it so that it becomes easier.

Thanks to @Lionheart for reminding me how much weapon attack Night Lords truly get.

 

Thanks for pointing out that problem. I updated my post to be more accurate.

 

Yeah, I tried finding any pre-bb source that contests it, but I couldn't find anything. I only found one source which explicitly stated that Triple Throw does in fact use the same formula, most don't explicitly say it does or doesn't. But as far as I can tell it seems accurate. I would be glad for any confirmation from developers, though.

Also, just as a side note... all the factors I overlooked (attack speed, Maple Warrior, and Echo of a Hero), if I'm correct, all will just benefit the Night Raven's Claw even more. I am of the opinion now that it is truly the end game claw to go for. That is, of course, until you literally get enough +DEX from gear that you reach 140 DEX or more.

 

Yeah, pretty much what Illusion said. LUK scrolls outright don't exist for some items (helmets, eye accessory, earrings) where DEX scrolls do.

 

Yeah, I'm almost 100% sure they do not exist in v62. Someone please post if they find one.