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Non-HP Wash Jobs

Discussion in 'Help & Advice' started by InkySplaters, Apr 21, 2021.

  1. Coincidences
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    Coincidences Mano

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    8:14 AM
    Memento
    Buccaneer
    176
    Vengeance
    [​IMG]
    This was my HP at level 150 with tier 10 & Ellin Ring with 60 base INT from level 20 as well as INT gear along the way as a first character. Here's my perspective as a Bucc:

    With 11.9k hp, you would only be able to take one hit from most bosses without HB. You most probably will need HB to do NT at level 163 if you only have 60 base INT, while still being able to do other bosses. From experience since Buccs have a more flexible rush, we're most likely pinning Nameless and Scar/Targa if there is no warrior and will take hits from body. Especially nameless, where you'll need 18.3k HP to take one claw from the boss and spare yourself from the stress of taking a claw hit. We have no damage reduction unlike warriors (Achilles/Power Guard). In HT, I generally am in the party without HB but perhaps your team could accommodate you.

    After hitting 150, I took a long break and reset my STR to 190INT and MP & HP washed until level 175:

    [​IMG]
    I have 17k with Tier 10, Ellin Ring and MoN. (17.7k additional 750 HP from zombie rings) I'll still die to Nameless' claw, but I can at least take two hits in HT as well as Scarlion & Targa and do NT. I recommend saving NX and fresh stat points to catch up on hp washing later on.

    TLDR; You have to wash in order to tank more than two hits from bosses without HB(I don't have experience in PB). Wash if you want to HT comfortably, and do NT and PB. In general, any serious character should wash. I'm remaking my character but that's just me trying to do all content without needing as HB as a melee class. It's definitely doable to play a Bucc as your first character but you probably need to save up NX, fresh AP and MP and HP wash later on.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    Thanks for the informative post.

    Initially I wanted to make a bucc with no INT gear, 50 base INT. This will unfortunately give me 10k HP by level 150.

    If possible, may I know the int gear u used? its for my personal preference.

    If I can get HB in every runs, it will be comfortable (i think). However, im led to an impression where there will be times I will not have HB and well, I'll die with 10k HP.

    Question is, when doing large scale parties, considering the large number of range attackers, whats the chance we will be allocated with a DK?
     
  3. Coincidences
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    Coincidences Mano

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    Male
    8:14 AM
    Memento
    Buccaneer
    176
    Vengeance
    Sure, I only started piecing together INT gear at level 50

    My list of INT gear includes:
    16 int bathrobe scrolled from Anni
    Deputy Star (replaced w/ HT pend at 120)
    Clean Zak Helm
    6INT Heart Wand
    2 Int Clean Yellow Work Gloves
    7 INT Raccoon Mask
    6 Int Red Emerald Earrings scrolled from Anni
    8 Int Raggedy Cape

    To be frank, I highly recommend MP washing instead of being too concerned with INT gear. Assuming a 190 base INT like I did, you can easily put 2 AP into MP and 3 into HP. This will allow you to net an average of 40 x 3 HP washes + 52HP = 172 HP per level up. But of course, you have to set aside some AP. Perhaps you could level with 50 INT until Level 130, then 7F your way through the levels while using the fresh AP gained from then on. My only regret was that I did not consider saving up AP to do MP washing. If I had done HP & MP washing earlier, I would have hit 20k and be satisfied.

    Bossing:

    HT: From my experience, it’s definitely easier if you do not need HB. You'll probably not get HB imo unless you specifically ask for it. Most of the time, I run without HB. Also as a bucc, we’ll most likely be attacking on the opposite side of a DK. So even if we did have HB, we would have to travel constantly to the other side to get HB... really annoying.

    NT: When NT-ing, you’ll probably have HB unless you have more than six people. However, Verga and Dunas both have dispel. In particular, Verga hits for 14k so you definitely will need HB 100% of the time... unless you perfectly time your I-frames. Your DK gotta rebuff everytime you get hit with the dispel, which is doable if you sacrifice some dpm. But, sometimes you get caught in the demolition animation and get hit by the laser so you'd need rebuffs. Also with 10k by 150, I assume that by level 163 you’ll only have 11k. With HB that’s 17.6k, which means you must definitely dodge all the claw attacks from Nameless. So for NT there will be HB, but life will be a lot easier if you can take hits.

    PB – I have no experience in PB, but I’ll assume that each party will carry a DK.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. Floris
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    Floris Capt. Latanica

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    2:14 AM
    If you want to make a bucc, I just want to point out that they are really not as easy to wash as most people will tell you.
    To give you an example:
    Buccs always need to be washed with fresh AP (aka AP you just got from leveling up), then for one wash it is: -16 MP, +38 HP
    An unwashed bucc will have 11.259 HP clean @ 180, assuming you have 2k HP from the best in slot gear as described in this thread.

    Now if you want to do all content without depending on HB, reference this thread and pick out a number you feel comfortable with. To do all content (excluding PB) without HB you need 19k HP. To do all content (including PB) without HB you need 24k HP.

    I'll give you two calculations, using Chew's HP washing calculator (google it, cant find link)
    upload_2021-4-24_16-14-37.png
    15.899 + 2.000 = 17.899 HP using best in slot HP gear
    This means we require 1.101 HP from MP washing. 1.101/38 = 29 HP washes. For these washes we need 19*16 = 464 extra MP. To gain the MP we need to MP wash 464/(120/10 - 2) = 464/10 = 46 MP washes. So thats 9 levels and 1 wash worth of AP.

    upload_2021-4-24_16-20-19.png
    15.099 + 2.000 = 17.099 HP
    19.000 - 17.099 = 1.901 from MP washing, so 50 HP washes require 800 MP which we get by doing 100 MP washes. Thats 20 levels of 5 MP washes.

    Comparing this with the example above you can see that lower base int quickly results in a more pricey washing procedure (as you have to MP wash more). The AP resets saved by having lower base int is 120-100 = 20 (because down the line you have to reset 20 less int into str), whereas you have to MP wash 54 more times. Thus the additional cost in AP resets is 34.

    I hope these two examples are somewhat clear and maybe help you figure out what base int/mp washing amount you feel comfortable with. If you have any questions just let me know <3
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Myungsoo
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    Myungsoo Slimy

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    2:14 AM
    Robinn
    Crossbowman
    Do keep in account that events allow you to get multiple AP resets per day as well. 3 years of voting can easily turn into 3 to 12 months of voting if you play around the events.
     
  6. Jaewonnie
    Online

    Jaewonnie Capt. Latanica

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    Apr 21, 2020
    Crimsonwood Mountain: Cavern of Pain
    8:14 PM
    PAWGChamp
    Buccaneer
    Hi that was me lol. My current bucc is lv185 sitting at 18.5k HP before HB. It was actually a salvaged SI mule that i speed leveled to lv126 without any washing. Then SI nerf on mage ults hit after 2 weeks...but I honestly enjoyed playing bucc a lot from 1st-3rd job that I decided to pump base into to 200 and salvage the char. (I don't recommend this in hindsight, just make a new properly washed bucc lol). I kept 200 base into until lv180. It hasn't hindered my ability to play at all during those levels. Bucc's have a high str multiplier (4.8) meaning each point STR does not have a huge impact on dmg. I think by lv179 while I still had 200 int (320+ with equips) I could still dish out like 5m dpm transformed. And tbh most ppl are still washing even at lv150s. You won't fall behind with base int.

    I'm too invested in my current char to remake. Nameless and Toad usually have HB and these are the only bosses where I really need it. (PB as well). Based on a quick calc, if you wanna reach 30k HP on bucc, you need at least 1.7m nx (this assumes no mp wash; add in mp wash and you'll need more nx). So I think the take away is, if you wanna play your bucc serious in bossing, extra HP really helps. I wish balance team could add something like powerguard on buccs. We're the only class with no dmg mitigation skill and our iframes only help in certain bosses.
     
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  7. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    Hey thanks for the detailed reply. Really appreciate it. I do understand the washing aspect of buccs, however I'm not willing to spend so much NX/base int on making it.
    Already had a difficult time with a ultra heavily washed 80 int hero, which I do not want my bucc to follow.

    Also, in the past it was generally accepted that buccs (and shads) do not require alot of washing, which was the biggest appeal to me. Hence thats why I have considered a 50 base INT, no gear, no MP wash method. For both shads and buccs, seems like this isn't a good idea anymore. Washing them now subjectively requires the same amount of NX as washing a BM/NL.

    At this rate, feels like the only character that can survive low INT and NX washing is warriors.
     
  8. Floris
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    Floris Capt. Latanica

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    Yeah I'm sorry about that. Previously the HP washing requirements were lower (before Neo Tokyo and PB coming out) and thus shads/buccs required almost no washing.
    If you want you can run the 50 base int calculations in a similar manner, I doubt it'll net you a good amount of HP though...
    I agree that washing a bucc is very close in NX to washing a BM/NL (considering they require more HP as they are a melee class).

    On the bright side, any warrior with 40 base int (and I believe almost no INT equips except like a zhelm/dep star, which you want anyway) should be able to reach 30k hp! So they are super forgiving :)
     
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  9. Althariisa
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    Althariisa Slimy

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    9:14 PM
    Tauriel
    Dark Knight
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    Well this is the main reason that the HP wash related thread have to be closed here because its a nonsense to be bitching at something that is actually not a MapleLegends feature.

    We have to bear in mind that the bad hp design of the majority of the jobs (such formulas, skills, job increase) are from the original game designed by Wizet in that time that v62 was official (and all the other versions too) So its not a thing that MapleLegends have put there to just disturb you Radically changing this makes the server not to be nostalgic/old school anymore which is the principal premise of this project. for that one is saying this server its vote2win, i gotta say that you lacking of thought. in the GMS AP resets, pets were paid with real money and here we dont have that inconvenient. the nx required to wash and use cosmetic are on access of everyone who's playing.

    So I said that the bad hp design is all Wizet/Neckson original fault rite? so the damage of the bosses are originally designed by the same that way SO people would invest more on the game. Here on Legends we have "HP helps" such like Monster book ring, Mark of Naricain, Blackfist cloak and Pet HP scrolls. with those things you can get away with a minimal amount of washing on the majority of the content (Except Pink Bean which you require 12k hp clean to survive with HB) but even pink bean was designed by wizet that way to get more money from the players. So i think this discussion is nonsense. that's why dark knight exist. if you don't want to depend on dark knights because any reason you have THEN YOU SHOULD WASH.

    To answer the question of the OP. You can be a Warrior. with only 20 int base you can reach 18,750 hp at lv 140. and if you dont wash at level 200 you will have aproximately 12,4k hp. so you think about it.

     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    iPippy
    If you wanna be playable in the areas that matter for bucc, you'll want to aim for at least 15-16k hp before hb. That's probably the minimum you can get by with for PB with hb. Fights where you need more hp should have a dk in your party (toad, pb, mule in nameless) 95% of the time. The other times are usually deaths/dcs/no shows. Not being reliant on HB is pretty handy in those situations, especially if you have to party swap to a party without hb mid-bean.

    I would say that the need to wash has always been there, and that old claim of "buccs dont need wash" has always been false. Maybe in an old meta where HB was always available for zak, but an unwashed bucc cannot even take a body hit from zakum. I've lost plenty of friends that didnt wash and could not even zak w/o hb. Dont get me wrong, its technically doable w/o enough hp to tank a hit, but you lose too much damage and risk dieing and being taken out of the fight entirely unless theres smoke. And our hp continues to scale terribly after that.

    HT is best considered never having hb. In a one-party run, you have to specifically get a dk as cleaver, competing with shad and hero for that slot, unless you stuck em on heads the entire time, which is okay but not any party's first choice. In a two-party run, the DK has already been claimed by the NL that needs all the buffs to even perform. It's probably Bish+DK+NL+BM and 2 slots with you taking one. At best you would be supplying si to the DK and one other, while the other party is more likely to have 3 or more valid targets for si. And of course, unless you wanna be stuck on right side (a pain unless you have high avoid and good positioning), you have to drop down and travel for hb every couple minutes disrupting super transform uptime. It's simply not worth it.

    In all, 15-16k HP will definitely leave you wanting more, but it is possible to make ends meet. I'd consider that the "10k equivalent" of a ranged char, and should require similar levels of nx/wash investment. Maybe less base int if you mp wash more.

    I'm not sure we need power guard with everything else we have. It's true the iframes arent enough on their own, but if used well and combined with an archer-tier avoid our total damage taken is actually pretty low. A pg-type effect would be nice and probably would make it truly a wash optional class, but we've got a great kit as is, and the wash burden for minimums is no more than that of any range char.
     
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  11. KurayamiHS
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    KurayamiHS Orange Mushroom

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    8:14 AM
    Bishop
    200
    What's your end game boss?
    Zak? Pap?
    Then all good.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1

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