Returning scammed items

Although I agree that if evidence was found, the items should be returned...past cases would be much more difficult to look into because the logs are older and I doubt the people who got scammed remember any close timestamp, heck even exact day...

 

Id also like to clear out on any claims that the gms may make on him "giving" the gear. If you also checked his trade logs you will see the amount of times he has given gear and the hundreds of times following that he received it back, showing that his intent was to lend, never give. You have clear evidence of the gear he has reported which adds to this case. You had a given timestamp in which he, Franco, has given. What is to stop him from getting his gear back? If you are going to check the other scam cases, you are going to realize, in what way did they get scammed? How is it possible to even get scammed besides lending someone something?

 

Okay, I haven't payed attention to this shitfest, but why is everyone except Franco asking for his gear back?
I don't get it.

 

Just going to point this out to everyone in future comments etc.

The amount of times someone has done something in the past is irrelevant to the actions they take in the future. Everything is subject to change and that is what the staff has to go by. The NOW, not the past.

Apart from that... continue

 

Yeah, but what I'm trying to say is that the fact that he has given it in the past doesn't really do anything to now, you are giving evidence for this case on previous actions. Sure, it helps the mindset of "He wouldn't do it because he hasn't done it in the past" but the staff can't go on that due to it not being solid evidence...

If anything, the logs of him giving the equipment out for lending just show multiple chances he has given someone to put him in this situation. I highly doubt he screenshotted over 70% of those transactions.

(Even i've used it and I am very thankful for being able to use them)

 

I might be out of line, but...
Sorry, but bottom line I have to agree with the staff's decision.
Even if he's been proven to lend people INT gear hundreds of times.
I feel really bad for the guy, but if the staff is going to be professional and strictly objective they cannot act without substantial proof.
Franco sounds like a really stand up guy and it sucks that this happened to him. :/
Let this be a reminder for all of the players that you should always screenshot your conversations with the people you lend your gear to. Hell, I even screenshot when people lend me gear.

 

Not relevant to your main question, but just to point out... You say the announcement was removed, which is true, however it was there when the case developed, thus it applied at that time and in any judgment in the case, it applies as well. Changes shouldn't be applied retroactively.

I've pointed this out so many times yet you seem to blatantly ignore it time after time.

 

I feel like this thread is a waste of time. The decision has been made, spend your time on something more productive than decision that isn't going to be changed. Lol

 

Oh okay, I think I understand what you're trying to say now.
I get your point, I really do.
They are changing the rules, but if they were to give Franco his shit back it'd just look like they were changing the rules for him (yes, I know they'd open the old cases etc. but they wouldn't have done that if it wasn't for this case). It just doesn't work that way and I believe their way of thinking is the right way when "governing" a community. They have to be cold and factual.

 

The staff clearly specified to make a new thread if we wanted the discussion to keep going. I don't see how that's a waste of time.

 

They told you that so you could vent most likely... if the staff went back in their decision they'd look weak, clearly making them unable to make a final decision. If they honestly wanted the communities view on this, wouldn't they have asked for it previous to the final decision?..

There are other people who agree with the staff, who can make just as many valid points as people against the staff can... They made a decision knowing this, why would they ever go back on it. Its all a matter of view.

 

The only people who gave arguments against Franco getting his gear back was always the same: "Favouritism" or "The staff can't act without enough evidence". The thing is there is evidence now, provided by the staff. There is really no favourtism if the staff give him his gear back and I'll tell you why. The old rule clearly stated there needed to be evidence of a scam to be refunded, there now is evidence of him being scammed. The reason the staff acted on the case to look for evidence wasn't because of "favouritsm" towards franco, it was because of the uproar caused by the community since Franco had many friends, which aren't necessarily the staff. If the people in past scam cases without provided evidence would have had many friends and the things he got scammed were important enough, I can bet the staff would have ended up investigating the case to avoid more drama. And that's my point, the staff wouldn't be doing "favouritsm" for Franco, other cases didn't have any kind of repercussion on the staff not because they weren't "favourites" of the staff, but because they simply didn't have many friends to back them up, sadly to say.

 

So the evidence the staff is seeing are the items in the "thief's" inventory, right?
That still doesn't prove the reason why he has the items.
First of all, I actually agree with not punishing the thief until it's been proven that Franco lent him the items.
Also, as I haven't been paying attention to this case, why not get him to confess?
Has the staff talked to the individual?

Second of all, I have a different view of what the staff should be. They should follow their own rules completely and not warm and compassionate. Just like a government they are first and foremost an important organ in a society that adheres and acts on their own rules. Of course, this isn't a country's government, but I believe in principles.

 

Well, I thank all you guys that argued against the actions being taken by the staff, I don't think you'll be surprised to find that I agree with your statements. To be perfectly honest I did not expect anything to come from this, I did not think the scammer would be punished and even less that I would get my items back. However this decision to punish the person who took my gear and then destroy it baffles me, recognizing the scamm, punishing the offender yet not returning the gear seems ilogical to me. I feel it is unfair but at the same time I know the staff will not change their mind.
Hopefully if something similar happens in the future, other won't be fucked over like I was but hey, It happens. Remember guys, never try to be nice

 

Sun Tzu, the author of the art of war which is a book known for dictating who wins a war, once said, "If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, then the general is to blame. But, if orders are clear and the soldiers nevertheless disobey, then it is the fault of their solider." Here we had a situation in which the rules were unclear to the point that the staff had to go fix them. Why can't you just give the gear back? Seriously, how will this effect, besides Franco, anyone at all. You know with common sense that this was a lend not a give, anyone that claims otherwise should reevaluate their skills. We have the concise proof, of the gear, and the intent, what more is there to give. Literally, what other way is there to scam besides taking off with someone's gear that they lent you? No one is just going to give their best gear away unless they were quitting. Here we see Franco still active trying to still get shit done without his gear, in hopes of getting them back one day. Is it really that unmethodical to just hand back his gear with the evidence we have?