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Returning scammed items

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Lionheart, Nov 19, 2015.

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  1. Ghost.
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    Ghost. Nightshadow

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    Nobody can hp wash now Kappa
     
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  2. Freddychanyo
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    Freddychanyo Slimy

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    I often say I'm a rebel and I won't wash like a Maple newfag, but..
    The only reason is that I'm too poor KappaPride
    #INTGate2015
     
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  3. Clown
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    Clown Zakum

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    Get some base int, like 40 wont hurt your damage too much, while still providing with some hp washing capabilities...
     
  4. zook
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    zook Capt. Latanica

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    destroy da gears fuck franco hes a pizza shit and will get new gear anyway with our without the help of u GM's/Admins fuck da haters
     
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  5. Aero
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    Aero Skelosaurus

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    100% agree. candy2prres
     
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  6. bbokko
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    bbokko Selkie Jr.

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    What even is a scam?

    Might be unpopular opinion here but:

    Though I fully agree with Franco that it seems illogical knowing that the scammer did in fact scam and also to not return the items to him as the victim, I also would state that the pure idea of how the scammer got the items to act out the scam in the first place is based on circumstantial evidence. Past behavior of lending items with full intent of getting them back on multiple occasions is great for saying "look at how many times I did it before with no problem so why is this any different". It cannot however set a precedent for every time the same act of item exchange takes place. i.e. there is nothing that makes the last 99 acts of "lending" mean that the 100th act was also "lending" and not "giving". Unless a screenshot of the trade with the words "I am lending these items to you with full intent of getting back" in other words, a legal contract between the parties with written proof.

    If multiple people buy concert tickets online (and have done so many times successfully in the past) but it turns out the person on the other side this next time was a scammer, that money is lost for good. Even if the scammer is found and his ill-gotten gains seized, the victims share of money from that pool isn't returned. That money stays as "evidence of the scam" in lock-up, so to say, nor does anyone have an obligation to get the victims the tickets. Slightly different scenario since an actual assumed legal transaction is taking place but still same outcome.

    Just my two cents based only on the thread comments.
     
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  7. OP
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    Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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    I like how the people against it use real-life analogies as backup, but their perception of what actually happens in real life is either wrong or it's just such a mismatched analogy, it makes no sense.

    Point: In the example with concert tickets, the difference here is that the stolen goods can very easily be found and returned. And the obvious common sense and morally correct solution in real life any time something is stolen is for authorities to return it.

    Laws changing: This article describes how precedents and previous rulings on a case are typically upheld. But there are exceptions. See the last two paragraphs.

    If you don't understand any of these words, I suggest you consult a dictionary before arguing more.
     
  8. Nikki
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    Nikki Selkie Jr.

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    Yeah, the fact that it's being taken away from the scammer than destroyed is silly as hell. Seems as though some sort of back peddling method is being used.

    1. Making int gear is stupid easy at the birth of server because staff decided to release the server without any sort of economic plan or foresight
    2. Staff slowly makes obtaining all gear, especially of the int variety, harder
    3. Gear is scammed because of someone's misplaced kindness
    4. Staff takes advantage of situation so that they can even the INT gear playing field, effectively covering up a mistake they made
    5. Staff red tapes all who disagree by citing "this was the rule all along" and "we have treated other situations similarly" even though obvious malicious activity has taken place

    Not only does this "solution" overlook something incredibly important, that being that there are already many FULLY washed characters that have taken advantage of the 'EZIntGear' times to reach their HP washing goal (usually horntail**).. it is also on the wrong side of common sense.

    Attacker classes that weren't taking advantage/weren't around in the days of 'EZIntGear' will now most likely have to put in more base int to reach their washing goals (although those who weren't friends with franco/in certain guilds already would have :rolleyes:). This will only make them have to spend more time (Ap resets = NX = Time) and put in more effort (scrolls harder to obtain) than others did to reach their goal.

    Jeez, i'm glad I became fully washed before the staff started 1. raising the difficulty of HP washing extremely and 2. snuffing out the int gear that currently exists

    Most market action taken thus far does not seem as though it is in the best interest of the maple legends majority :coffee:
     
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  9. SwordArt
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    SwordArt Windraider

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    someone close this thread before I do more drugs thanks
     
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  10. Clairvoyant
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    Clairvoyant Mixed Golem Retired Staff

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    What?

    I have no idea where you got the perception that this decision was made to "even the INT gear playing field" but I can inform you with upmost certainty that this idea didn't strike my mind at all when I casted my vote (and likely, it didn't occur to anyone other staff member either).

    Feel free to further discuss the decision in the thread, but refrain from introducing irrelevant ideas and assuming untrue statements, please.
     
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  11. Freddychanyo
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    Freddychanyo Slimy

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    MapleLegends staff did 9/11?
    Find out next on Maple X Files Season 53
    conspiracy theories are spooky
     
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  12. Christine
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    Christine Blue Snail

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    Should just stop debating because... tbh, nothing is going to change.
    Useless drama flooding forums.
    We don't need that kind of negativity.
     
  13. Nikki
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    Nikki Selkie Jr.

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    I understand your position, but the reality is that the removal of that OP gear that was being lent out due to the kindness of another member did in fact "even the INT gear playing field." Also, the ability to make more of that int gear for a large %age of the population has been vastly reduced within the last few months, due both to inflation (from mesos dropping naturally over time) and gachapon diversification (the weakening of gachapon over time through both nerfs and diversified dropping of in demand items).

    All of this makes it harder for new players to HP wash unless they use gear made by players in the past. New players shouldn't have to be dependent and have to "borrow" gear from older players in the first place. It should be a do-able thing for new players as long as they are willing to put in the effort. Currently, it isn't, as one Overall for Int 30% scroll is worth 15-20 million mesos and that takes hours to attain unless luck (Gachapon) is involved.

    I guess my main question is.. Why make some of the games most important longterm aspects (in this case, HP washing for eventual Horntail attackers) incredibly easy in the beginning and than slowly make them harder over time through gachapon changes? Isn't that illogical? This applies (less, I suppose) to every aspect of the game, but the thread is about INT gear so I suppose i'm applying my argument to that.
     
  14. Franco
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    Franco Wolfspider

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    What I still don't understand, is the reasoning behind the destruction of the gear, I can't even be allowed to buy back the gear from the guy/staff w.e.? I mean, making a 9 int shield and a 10int glove or buying a new pair is just not possible right now, it's not that I'm not willing to try or pay, there is no way to do so.
    I'm pretty sure people wouldn't buy the gear from this guy and I could offer a reasonable ammount of mesos to him to get it back, or if the staff feels I shouldnt't get them back for free and the scammer shouldnt be paid, then give mesos to the server/staff
    But, why destroy them...? I don't see the logic behind that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2015
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  15. Nikki
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    Nikki Selkie Jr.

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    DUDE WILL LITERALLY GRIND UNTIL HE'S GROUNDED OR PAY YOU WHATEVA YOU WANT.. YET YOU STILL WON'T GIVE HIM HIS (now unobtainable) GEAR THAT HE WORKED MONTHS FOR (less than the YEARS people would currently have to work) BACK

    I rest my case, pls close the thread and do nothing about it now.

    #francosgear
    #intgate2015
    #fixit

    ( :D :D :D :D )
     
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  16. OP
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    Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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    As much as I would agree that the loss of Franco's int gear makes it harder for people to wash, and that such gear was much easier to make in the past... this really has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

    The issue is that the staff believe the suspect to be guilty, but instead of returning the stolen gear, they are destroying it. They are doing this because their policy has changed and they think it's "unfair" to other scamming victims who got shafted by the "no evidence no return" policy.

    I say let any of these previous scamming victims come forward and either approve of returning Franco's gear, or petition to re-evaluate their case. That is... if they still even play anymore. I would imagine players who didn't receive help when it seemed obvious they got scammed no longer play here. Probably goes to show you that those rulings were also unfair, and it wouldn't be fair handling this case in the same manner either.
     
  17. Gi
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    Gi Windraider

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    Let me just start of here, and say that I'm disgusted by what some people have thrown at (each) other(s) in the margin of this report. It's not going to help your case, in contrary.

    We've always based ourself on these posts,
    • Terms & conditions (TnC)
    • Announcement: http://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/regarding-leeching-deals.4540/ (which is not deleted)
      States that any ambiguous deal (including leeching) is the responsibility of the player, and that evidence of an agreement is required to be given. This thread has formed an addition to the TnC because we were unable to protect our users that became a victim of such deals.
    In particular for this report,
    The scamming report did not include any sort of "proof of agreement". Any hope of the items being return by staff interaction is gone at this point, because of the announcement. These situations happened before; even recently.

    However, we were able to dig deeper than before. Proof was found that this report is indeed qualified as a scam. Bound to the TnC there's no way to let the scammer walk freely now. Obviously the scammer gets a ban, and the fraudulently gained items can not be kept.
    Saying that we're destroying the items feels wrong to me. Rather, we're not returning them because the report did not meet the requirements to justify a return. These requirements are publicly known, and equal for everyone.

    Now we need to be warm and compassionate when discussing how we'll prevent this in the future. We shouldn't be throwing dirt at people, but start aiming for a better future, together. If you want to post general feedback: go here. If maybe you have a more private question, the quick @GM section is your place to be.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2015
  18. OP
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    Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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    GiGi: I am not responsible for any of the shitposters here or any of the off topic stuff or insults they said.

    Clearly, your announcement/policy needs to be amended immediately and retroactively. You know the guy was a scammer. There is no getting around the fact that you are wrongfully withholding items that were stolen from a player who was just trying to be nice and help other people. No twisting of words change that fact. So long as they are "removed" from the scammer but not returned, they are effectively destroyed. It is a gross injustice.

    I've really said all there is to be said. If staff are incapable of re-evaluating themselves, further topics and more private messages to a GM are pointless. It is clear our opinions don't matter.
     
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  19. Sucre
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    Sucre Zakum

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    The next time someone gets scammed without provided proof, I'll support his items getting destroyed just to be fair with Franco's case :)
     
  20. rewyuio
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    rewyuio Selkie Jr.

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    Pretty sure there won't be a next time seeing as no one is willing to, as the staff say, "give" gear anymore.
     
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