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Some feedback in regards to the gacha revamp

Discussion in 'Accepted' started by Autoassemble, Oct 20, 2015.

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  1. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    Gotcha, thanks.
     
  2. United
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    United Skelegon

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    i think combining the idea with correct situation make thing better...
    on the one hand: massive meso sink.
    on the other hand: not having to w8 90 days (or more) to complete your already lvl 120+ char.
     
  3. Redwine
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    Redwine Capt. Latanica

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    While I am s strong proponent of a massive meso sink, I AM against the idea of purchasable AP resets.

    the concept is against the fundamental message that we have been receiving from the staff since the beginning of the server, that hp washing should be a challenge. the day that purchasable AP resets get implemented is the day that we start seeing 30000 HP archers and thieves and honestly who wants to see that?

    this server stands out due to its difficult of washing, and clearly everyone who has reached high levels and washed here was okay with that. Lets not change that. those who come after should be required to put in just as much time in voting days as those who came beforeto obtain a successfully washed character.

    While meso sinks are needed, I dont think meso purchaseable resets is the best solution
     
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  4. BwanDit
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    BwanDit Motertert

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    Well depending on the price of the AP resets, HP washing (if they are, say 10m per) would still be a hard challenge. Who has 1 billion mesos to spare on washing HP?

    By all means, make AP resets cost even more mesos, I honestly think getting mesos is harder than just not even playing the game and voting every day.

    Also, I included non-int AP resets at a cheaper price, so that people could change builds, without needing to spend billions of mesos in order to do so.

    I do agree with you that HP washing should be a challenge, but currently the challenge is "Don't play for 90 days and just consistently vote"/"Look ugly asf and save your NX for resets"

    It is a challenge, I agree (albeit an extreme test of patience) however for people who want to do this quicker, you can always buy an AP reset for mesos and earn those mesos through hard work via farming.

    An example:

    Let's say you are able to farm 7m an hour.

    An AP reset at 10m (not a certain price, should probably be higher, of course the price will need looking at in-depth) means you are getting just under an AP reset per hour.

    You farm for 100 hours, 700m. That's 70 AP resets.

    To reach 30k HP (non-warrior), you'd need over 170+ AP resets

    170 * 10 = 1.7b

    That's 1.7b for 170 AP resets.

    Bare in mind that 10m for an AP reset, in my opinion is pretty cheap. If people want it set higher, then it's going to take even longer.

    So farming 7m an hour, the time it takes to get 1.7b = 242 hours of constant farming.

    Which, I might add, is about 10 days non-stop, no-break farming.

    Of course people might earn more than 7m an hour (bishops leeching someone), but still, Bishops have an advantage on farming and that's just something which is a part of the game.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2015
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  5. tyys1337
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    tyys1337 Master Chronos

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    Since when was hp washing the Problem ? Dont we Talk about lack of scrolls ?
    I Dont think purchaseable ap resets with meso fix anything.
     
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  6. Number32
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    Number32 Skelegon Retired Staff

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  7. BwanDit
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    BwanDit Motertert

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    Of course, they could simply create a whitelist of IPs!

    Meaning you would both be allowed (after applying for it) to get the same benefits as everyone else! :)

    I think I read it somewhere here, if not it was on another private server (mentioning no names), but that system would work for the tickets.

    I'll admit we (I) have gone a little off-topic, but the main fact stays the same.

    The only you can currently spend a lot of mesos on are scrolls/potions/items. (mainly scrolls/items obtained via Gachapon, which there is a lack of)

    If we include something, like purchasable AP resets with mesos, it means the total overall mesos in the server will go down.

    This will lead to less mesos in the server, meaning scrolls become cheaper, since not everyone has stacks on stacks of mesos and constantly are fighting to outbid each other.

    This also means that new people have more of a chance, since there is something taking the mesos OUT of the server (which most likely the rich people are going to be willing to spend mesos on)
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2015
  8. Redwine
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    Redwine Capt. Latanica

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    I think there are great ideas in this thread. perhaps we should start a new thread with a discussion on mesos sinks and keep this related to the gacha revamp.
     
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  9. Gang
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    But they're part of the same issue. Scrolls became so expensive in such a short time because there is alot of mesos floating around and the amount of mesos is only getting bigger. Making certain items rare is not the issue. The problem is that certain people have billions of mesos stacked, which means they can afford to pay alot more for wanted items, including scrolls. That in turn makes the gap between veteran players and new players so much bigger.

    If the big meso stacks get smaller and smaller because of a great money sink, making scrolls and items more rare is less of an issue, because players will have to think twice before buying an overpriced scroll.

    You cannot fix the issue of gachapon's without fixing the overwhelming meso stacks that are growing every minute at the same time.
     
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  10. BwanDit
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    BwanDit Motertert

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    Very well put, I highlighted my favourite part. :)

    However, to make it easier to read (and to know what you're reading) it'd be best to split the thread into 2 parts I guess.

    One solely talking about the Gachapon Revamp and one talking about a Meso sink. :D
     
  11. Redwine
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    Redwine Capt. Latanica

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    I have to disagree here. One of the main concerns of the OP was that players need to make progress in the game through scrolls. Meso sinks do not address this problem. Yes price levels should theoretically come down with meso sinks, but that theory falls apart with severely restricted supply. You can also say that high level players who no longer need to wash will still be buying up all the scrolls for over priced amounts. I really feel that the supply of scrolls need to be addressed separately, and thats why I said its a different subject.

    Gachapon rates seemed fine prior to patch, didn't it? Locations sucked, but the rates were fine.
     
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  12. OP
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    Autoassemble Selkie Jr.

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    I fully agree with most of what you are saying, I do think that gach is "fine" the way it is now which is as you said a lottery that rarely gives you anything good, but I do believe that it also need to be paired with mobs also having the ability to drop those scrolls so that the market demands can be met (and allow people to farm to try and improve their items.)
     
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  13. Ghost.
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    Ghost. Nightshadow

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  14. Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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    If the meso sinks included being able to purchase gashapon tickets as well, then yes, they would in fact be helping players make "progress". Maybe they could just leave the gashapons as they are now since they just seem nerfed so badly, but then give everyone the ability to buy more tickets with mesos. This would balance out the nerf.

    So anyway, seems we have 3 issues in this thread now:

    1) gash revamp tweaks
    2) ability to get gash-only items through normal gameplay
    3) meso sinks, including buying gash tickets and ap resets for mesos.
     
  15. Redwine
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    Redwine Capt. Latanica

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    I just think this whole issue of inflation and meso sinks could be a moot point if the supply issues are fixed.

    Take a look at this thread @Cozie made a few months ago. It was ridiculed to be a laughable idea and several people chimed in and said inflation was not a big issue, and was shot down by people who are now staff. It just seems to be a little reactionary and terribly inconsistent to all of a sudden change our stance when, at least in my point of view, the supply of scrolls is the real culprit behind the recent mayhem.

    As I pointed out in my first post, I don't think recent events gives us any insight into inflation, only on price levels.
     
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  16. Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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    I think people were only being jerks and never in favor of change (like players normally aren't). But now that the supply has stopped, we can see what's really going on here.

    Supposing we just put gashapon back how it was and then everyone gashed in shrine and "flooded" the market again, prices would likely go down, but they would still continually creep higher and higher. It would get to the point where the only way to be able to compete in the market is be level 150+ and sell leeches/zhelms or do gashapon and then sell your items for lots of mesos. Many high level players would have multiple chars with 2 bil mesos.

    And that isn't really healthy for the economy, is it? We'd want the primary way for players to generate wealth and be competitive to be through playing the game, not from having to depend on gash lottery.
     
  17. Redwine
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    Redwine Capt. Latanica

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    I'm not sure if we can. The only variable that has changed is supply. Therefore I am led to conclude that the supply disturbance caused the price changes, and I feel that this will probably fix 80% of the problems. I hate stupid cliches, but let's pick the low-hanging fruit first.

    Also, I don't think inflation pre gach-revamp was as rampant as we are all claiming. From what I recall, from when I started playing actively in July to just before the gach revamp (mid-October), scroll prices were very consistent, with the exception of the premium items (chaos scrolls, pink capes, and claw 30s). Most other scrolls were pretty much the same price on October 10th as they were on July 10th.

    I think this is a really important point, but since prices were only going up for premium items, it seems appropriate to design whatever meso sink to cater to that population. And frankly AP resets do not target that population. Gachapon tickets (i.e., scrolls) do.
     
  18. Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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    The supply changed, but I think it is also true that the supply NEEDED to change. You've stated that mushroom shrine has been flooding the server with scrolls and making the game too easy. But then when we merely toned it down and tried to spread things out, suddenly there's rampant inflation and it's the end of the world!

    I think you can at least admit: if the only way to keep prices down is to continue flooding the market with scrolls, then we have a big problem, and continuing flooding the supply is only a temporary solution.

    Looking at "premium items" is where we need to be looking. What is going to happen when White scrolls and chaos scrolls sell for 1b mesos or more? These items will be completely inaccessible to all but the uber elite, unless you get lucky and get one from gash yourself.
     
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  19. Clown
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    Rip ;/
     
  20. Redwine
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    Redwine Capt. Latanica

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    I have never said this. Supply was fine. Maybe you weren't talking to me.

     
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