Summer Event Balance Changes and Bug Fixes

Good detailed post. But again, I don't disagree with the DPM-based concerns. IMO paladin damage being inflated without high equipment investments compared to low-mid tier heroes WAS a problem. At early level 16x, I was outdamaging 17x heroes.

But none of it addresses the concerns with totally removing a gameplay element from the Paladin skillset, and relegating us to just clicking Blast without any party buffs.

 

All the HH mules out here gonna respec to TT mules

 

Likely they are washing and dealing 1 1 1 1 1 damage anyway.

But why the nerf to the 5% mastery (that never worked) and the 5wa?
Those was suppose to help MM delay they massive damage drop off later. Discussed here and here
I suspect the numbers in the anniversay change graph took into account of the 95% mastery which never worked, thus its a higher graph than what is actually in game.

Now 5wa is also reverted, MM's damage is getting the dropoff even earlier.

What is the reason for reverting the change?
Not like MM is anywhere close to OP or anything.

The small strafe buff is decent. Not many players really grind with a Sniper anyway.
We just don't see the need for nerfing the mastery, MM is slightly beginning to see some play. and now this????

 

That I can agree with, that it sucks that it makes pallies more one-dimensional. It's the same driving reason why I really dislike that holy shield is now a non-factor for HT bishops. But from what I can tell, the staff simply wanted to get rid of the effectiveness of HH mules and honestly, I think nerfing HH damage in bossing might still be the best solution because pallies are still awesome for HT even if they don't realize it, and multiclienting is much more complicated to police and whatnot. At least I can't think of a better idea x)

 

Slight confusion on the HT SED timer line.
Does this mean we'll have to keep 3 single SED timers and 2 mass SED timers(at 30% HP) per arm?

 

There will now be 3 independent sed timers for each arm and 2 independent mass sed timers for each arm.

 

Making SI not affect mages is gonna make end game leeching even more braindead. For 1 hit skele leech with SI, bishops had to manage positioning to cast gene 3 times optimally per wave while simultaneously having to manage additional buffs. This actually made skele leeching challenging and fun (you had to party invite & kick the SI mule + buff (multiclient) + sweep). Now bishops can only cast gene 2 times at skele like every other leech

 

You make some good points that I do agree with but my main gripe is you need to compare palys to other warriors not other single targets dps classes. Single target DPM wise Paladins don't do anywhere near enough additional damage to offset the fact Heros/Drk(also hb) can cleave (check Nise's dpm thread to see how close the 3 classes actually are in single target). There truly isn't a good non-friend related reason to bring a Paladin instead of those classes.

Also as an aside I have a tonne of NT experience and while I can say confidentially Paladins are probably the best class in the game for that content.... Finding partys for NT anything on a regular basis especially when you aren't 18x+ is very difficult. It's not content that is easily accessible for your regular player even if they are geared or high level.

And I think that's where my problem lies with the changes. I personally will still be able to HT and CWK just fine but that doesn't mean I don't care about the Paladin class as a whole. Upcoming Paladins shouldn't have to face an uphill battle as a result of HH mules screwing them over. Also 100% agree with xadra that gameplay wise taking away HH reduces the FUN of being a Paladin.

 

LF>buccs to be buffed based on warrior standards and not a rock

 

Are things like nine-spirit eggs still one of a kind? So if like 3 drop in HT people just have to roll for them and the best 3 get it?

Was thinking if it isn't one of a kind the host can loot all and just add to splits...

 

If you're up for the challenge, you can kick and add your sweeper mule. Does absolutely nothing, but it's challenging.

 

I never said Buccs also shouldn't be changed... Buccs deserve love too. Hell I thought this would be the patch for it to happen.

 

So any new Paladins want a perfect skull? KEKW

 

Thanks I appreciate that. In my opinion, pally perks in other bossing is way enough to make up for their non-cleave capabilities though. Sure NT may be more difficult to find people for, but plenty of people do run it and pallies are the #1 best class to solo or raid with there.

It might seem like only a small DPM difference betwen a pally and a hero/dk - but it's all relative, I think even a couple mil difference is huge. In my regular team's HT runs, I have the lowest solo target damage as a shad at around 7.5 or so, while the highest has like around 9.3 or so (he's a pally). Shads are essentially the lowest solo-target DPM of all attackers, while pallies are in that upper tier. It wouldn't make sense if pallies were stronger than range attackers anyways, range attackers are much harder to wash and control whereas pallies have stance and high base HP and washing capability. I personally believe pallies are in a plenty fair position solo-DPM wise.

I also just think this HH nerf just sounds much more detrimental than it is. Staff made a cleverly wise decision to not nerf it on regular mobs, like HH is still a really dope skill in general. But yeah, anyone would be dissatisfied with their class becoming more one-dimensional I can feel that completely.

 

How does the single SED targetting work then?
Upon starting the boss fight we'll all be outside of right arm aggro range so let's leave that first.
Left arm would then single SED:
1) First to enter map?
2) Whoever does most damage?
3) Person nearest to it?
4) Random person?
Moving on, if right arm has no target in aggro range at the start will it just not move at all?
Assuming right arm doesn't move at all, then how would it's SED target be determined when the team begins hitting it? Will it be:
1) First person to enter aggro range?
2) Whoever does most damage?
3) Person nearest to it?
4) Random person?

I understand both arms now have auto aggro mechanics and tbh you could leave us to figure this out by ourselves when server is back up but let's not act like we have anything else to do other than devise new HT strats.

 

Being near the arm just triggers its ability to attack. Seduce targets the first person to enter the map, and mass seduce targets the first 10 people to enter the map.

Having someone nearby is just the trigger for it to start using attacks.

 

For example, first person to enter the map is on the far left side, but my DK is on the far right.
How would the right arm single SED work then?

 

It would target the first person who entered the map, regardless of where they are. Splitting the party will mostly be for the experts now, as there'll be 6 normal seds and 4 mass seds later on with both arms triggered.

 

Overall a lot of good points in this post, but I don't think this one is quite accurate. Arm damage from HH is not necessarily insignificant just because the cleave attackers can kill wings/arm before the heads go down. You have to consider the opportunity cost of the hero/DK hitting the arm vs. a different body part that they *could* have been hitting had the arm gone down sooner due to HH collateral. Of course whether or not this is relevant depends on party composition, but essentially any time a hero/DK finds themselves hitting right arm with right head + wings dead, they could have instead been hitting mid head for damage which would speed up the run time. Similarly, hitting left arm with wings down doesn't frequently hit left head, so pally damage to take left arm down sooner helps move cleave damage toward hitting one of the heads.

(not disputing wing damage being insignificant, that's there to help the pally dpm peepee)

 

yoyo, I did think about this but it was hard to explain so I didn't want to flesh it out haha. First, if the cleaver is a shad, they attack in the same spots regardless, hitting all parts on that half of the body, so it doesn't matter for them. But if the cleaver is a hero/dk, even if they focus entirely on head, at best they can only hit 1 of them. If the hero/dk attacks on the right middle-top platform, they still 100% hit the right head (no damage lost there) and hit the right arm when it's not dipped. If cleavers attack on the left side, they 100% hit the arm, but if they optimize jump attacking are probably only hitting the left head around 50% of the time or slightly more? Alyosha would know more about that he's jump attack papi. So yeah some slight damage is lost while hero/dk attack on the left side because they're not 100% hitting the head, but even in spite of that I still wouldn't call the old HH damage rate at 800k DPM per arm significant. Though it's definitely better than nothing