Information November 2023 Balance Changes [Explained]

He could even keep the staff and still be good if he switched to Crimsonheart cloak, summer event face accessory, and INT scrolled eye accessory and got a better shield and gloves.

 

i actually wonder what kind of funding is required to even out with the old formula at 130 (ele wand), 150, 170, and 200 assuming highest tma/cost for everything and mage gears allowed. Each marginal point added to luk should trade for 1 tma minimum from mage gears

 

Here's my analysis:

Code:

=== Timeless Equips ===

LUK from common equips:
+17 LUK from Zhelm/Targa
+23 LUK from HTP
+17 LUK from rings
+8 LUK from face
+4 LUK from Crimsonheart Cloak
+4 base
= 73 LUK

minimum base LUK = 4
gear = 73 LUK
additional LUK needed = 27
for a total of 100 LUK

=== Elemental Staff 7 ===
* I assume average stats from levelups

LUK from Timeless equips:
+8 LUK from Myst Blue
+8 LUK from Cabatina
+10 LUK from Hermosa
+3 LUK from Prelude
= 29 LUK

With 129 LUK, we need another 36 LUK to equip the Elemental Staff.
MW20 gives us 10% base LUK, so we will need a total of 58 base LUK.

TMA from LUK equips :
+35 TMA from Elemental Staff 7
+13 TMA from Timeless Myst Blue
+11 TMA from Timeless Cabatina
+9 TMA from Timeless Hermosa
+9 TMA from Timeless Prelude
= 77 TMA

Now subtract the base LUK required (minus 4, because that is the minimum LUK, even for LUKless mages) from the TMA to get the actual TMA
77 TMA - 58 base (additional) LUK

Net TMA gain: 19

Realistically, endgame LUKless mages will be using Starlight/Moonlight and Yellow Snowshoes, so you could knock this down to about 10 bonus TMA.
There is also the option of scrolling OA or cape for LUK. IMO it is likely worthwhile to go for a minimum of 8 LUK on an OA before scrolling it for INT as this allows us to cap at 50 base LUK,  giving us more INT from MW20.

This is somewhat outdated as it's from a year or two ago but it's still mostly accurate.

 

We're drawing parallels here.
A mage with same TMA but different level means the lower level mage has better gear than the other.
My 192 bishop has better gear than WackyWarlock so I do more damage because gear is now more weighted in the damage formula. It's not the same comparison you're trying to make with attackers.

If a 192 NL has the exact same gear as a lvl 200 NL, then the level 200 NL will do more damage. That's true for the current mage formula too.
If a 192 mage has the exact same gear as a lvl 200 mage, the 200 mage will do more damage.
The 200 mage will have higher TMA***, but that's gained from levels and is not indicative of better gear.

***Edit: Adding a disclaimer because this is not always true. If, for some reason you decide to fuck around and put your AP from 192-200 into other stats, you will get penalized. This is where the controversy lies. But it's been already debated. If you're lvl 192 and still adding LUK, you'll get penalized in this new system, but you did it to yourself.

In the old formula, the ungeared/unfunded 200 bishop benefited from levels significantly because they gained 5 INT=5 M ATT a level. This makes stat gained from upgraded gear somewhat negligible. Why scroll a perfect wand when all your efforts get washed away from 11-12 levels of AP?

Imagine if 1 STR/DEX/LUK gave 1 W. ATK. In 7-8 levels, you'd basically have a perfect weapon. Doesn't that seem a little weird to you? That's what the old mage formula was like.

It's not unintuitive - it just requires a perspective change and letting go of the past. The new change is the one that makes more sense and is super simple. Better gear = better damage. And better gear is something anybody can work towards.

 

Insanely hot take, calm down please.

 

You can add Str to a NL which will increase your Range but not affect your TT damage. So you can have two NLs with the exact same range but one does way less damage.

 

stop at 27 luk needed, look your timeless gives 29 luk

it means you can be 4 luk using timeless and wand 7/8 so all your timeless gears (13 from myst blue, 11 from cabatina, 9 from hermosa, 9 from prelude) would be 42 tma gain without going into staff, not counting mw nor echo - that's a lot for lukless gears to catch up to and you can literally just scroll everything blindly with 60s and get away with hundreds of mil worth of upgrades


edit: remember in case of staff 7 you're trading int for tma so you'd need 1 int into luk for 1.13 tma so for staff 7 to be better than wand you need a bit more luk from gears

 

ah ok yah that was what i was asking thank you for actually answering the question lol

 

That's exactly what Im doing, yeah. Though you cant get to the 100 LUK needed for Timeless with 4 base LUK. You can get pretty close though, like 15 base LUK or so.

Gonna shamelessly plug my "guide" to LUK mage

 

Honestly maybe this is a good thing. For so long the standard for Mages has been to judge off of TMA, while for attackers, range is almost entirely irrelevant. No host uses range to determine if someone gets into a group or not because 1: most people don’t even know what a “good” range is for a given class and 2: it entirely disregards player skill. Attackers are expected to provide a DPM test result because it gives clear information on exactly what someone is going to contribute to the run.

Maybe it might be good to start holding mages to the same standard. TMA can still be used for leeching since ult damage is unaffected, but I think EPM tests are better because again it accounts for player skill.

 

you should edit your guide. mages that use mage gears pretty much has higher damage across the level curve. something small like zak helm and htp/rings could pretty much let you make a tradeoff for starlight. your goal should be to maximize your tma and sometimes that means choosing the lukless options.

 

I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Could you post a reply to that thread explaining your reasoning? I recommend going LUKless until 140 in the FAQ and include some low level mage equips that can be used with HTP+Zhelm.

 

Don’t tell me what my goal should be you dirty optimizing dog. I’ll ruin my character however I please. My goals are beyond your understanding.

 

sure buddy, you managed to say lots of things that i agree with that's doesnt answer my question (eg, everything you said about same gear but different level, and basically everything you said, lol) but someone else answered my question so its fine.

besides, i think we basically both agree the changes are good so i'll just leave it at that. PEACE, lol

 

Dunno why you're getting hostile but ok.

 

i guess definition of luk mage is kinda fuzzy but i see them as having luk to wear gears but not necessarily have base luk, kind of like how night lords are all some sort of low dex build.



2. at almost no funding you can equip some luk items, instantly putting you above equivalently scrolled common ints
3. you should still scroll for int. with high funding you chaos for the luk difference. scroll for luk and you lose out on future gains
5. you hit those breakpoints earlier if you build right because you'd still have higher total int

also luk build is a set and marginal cost = cost of the upgrade so unless you like starting back at square 1 every time, it's best to start much later and limit incremental upgrades.

 

Scrolling OA for LUK can be good if you want to use the Elemental staves, but I agree that scrolling for INT is generally better. The exception is scrolling cape for LUK. LUK cape scrolls are cheap as hell and if the extra LUK benefits you, a LUK PuAC or LUK Crimsonheart Cloak is a good move.

Yes, you can equip some high level mage stuff with 4 base LUK and an INT cape. But there's only two slots that can take advantage of this: overall and shoes. I discuss the shoe options in the FAQ, but I need to add info about the OAs. I'll do some research and add that later.

 

even capes have to be scrolled with int because it's unlikely you'll be get a 25++ total stat luk cape

 

Unlikely, yes, but IMO it's worth trying.

 

you'll burn too much money for it to be worth as the market is primed for int