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[Suggestion] Party Questing Level Limit Removal

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by intimmydator, Dec 28, 2023.

  1. intimmydator
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    intimmydator Slime

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    As the title says, I think it would be cool if the [upper] level limit was removed for KPQ, LPQ, EPQ, OPQ, PPQ, and MPQ, with the caveat being you can only use the appropriate skills for the level range - i.e. 1st job skills for KPQ, up to 2nd job skills for LPQ, EPQ, OPQ, and then up to 3rd job skills for PPQ and MPQ. Keep the EXP and other rewards exactly the same. This way people can go back and get cards they missed, finish off any hanging quest-item based rewards, and breathe more life into PQs for those you want to do them purely to do them. The only downsides I can think of would be people feeling maybe useless by a higher level carrying them, but it would be very quick runs, and gets more people together who may otherwise never connect.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 9
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. Subterlabor
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    Subterlabor Headless Horseman

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    Im curious why people are against this without explanation. It could be interesting if us higher level players were hardcapped on our HP, and attack range so to be comparable damage to a "funded" LPQ player (10-12 glove, purple tier weapon, etc) to not to simply 1 shot the mobs, or remove the need for dark sight/Barrel (LPQ golem things)

    Edit: I genuinely think this could be great for player retention. Many of my friends have gone inactive or simply play PQ level chars because truthfully post 4th job gameplay is a complete drag, but if I could play EPQ with a bunch of pog players to farm earrings (to inevitably boom them with 30%'s lel), it could be really fun to go back to that dumb, low stress gameplay again
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2023
  3. CaptainNemo
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    CaptainNemo Selkie Jr.

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    Few glaring examples:
    1. Excessively custom (I meme about people using this statement as a crutch to shut down suggestions, but removal of level limiters isn't the play here imo, and would simply take away potential time for an actual PQ overhaul).
    2. Detracts from the actual issues that PQ scene faces.
    2a. Poor rewards vs grinding, PQ's simply serve as a newbie trap time sink in current state
    2b. Rewards that become useless/irrelevant very quickly (Slime shoes are useless, glasses are replaced by racc masks and spec goggles, Horus eye is replaced by MoN/HTP/It's easier to get a depstar instead, goddess wristband is decent for new players to scroll an easy quick 10+ w.atk glove or an easy washing glove, but can and should be replaced eventually).
    3. Missed cards can be obtained in Night Market.

    An actual PQ overhaul would be the move to make, not this. Make it worthwhile for people in the correct level ranges to want to run it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. OP
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    intimmydator
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    intimmydator Slime

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    As far as I'm aware, a PQ Overhaul is already in the works, so I don't know why they would stop progress on that to implement this. This can really be done any time, I just want PQs to be less dead.
    Counterpoints to your arguments
    1. How is customizing every PQ in an overhaul less "'excessively' custom" than putting limitations on the player instead of the PQ? If you're gonna customize them all anyway, might as well make them experienceable by the playerbase.

    2a. The biggest time sink involved in PQs is finding the people to do it. It's especially annoying when you finally have a good, fast party and then someone hits the level cap and now the party doesn't have enough people, and that person who leveled has to hope they 1) enjoy the next party quest available and 2) hope there are people there if they're so inclined. The EXP isn't too bad, at least for OPQ, either. 20+% EXP/20 minutes from 55-65 with a fast party is unbeatable compared to grinding. 69-70 is 7 OPQs total (140 minutes, maybe 170 if your party's really struggling). I guess by the time you're rolling into MPQ you're there mostly for the Eye of Horus compared to the EXP because of access to CDs, but it still exists as an option at the very least. Unless you're suggesting leeching is grinding. I don't know what rewards you get from grinding, either. No one's come by to give me a 10% Overall for INT scroll for killing my 1000000th Vikerola.

    2b. Just because they're obsoleted by progress eventually doesn't mean they are irrelevant. Not everyone has moved from one stepping stone to the next. The glittering earrings are pretty good value and if you blow them up and have only half as much Altaire fragments needed for a new one but are level 55- 90%, probably eager to continue your maple journey, are you really going to kill your character multiple times to stick around and get a new one? Probably not. Yeah, maybe using the 30% on them was unwise in hindsight, but that's what Maple is all about -- gambling on your hard earned stuff. And if your character has already got gear and you don't care about the rewards of the gloves or glasses, that's okay too. You're choosing to invest your time in the PQ. I'm not suggesting in any regards that someone who's doing daily Scar runs is gonna be doing LPQ for glasses and like 80k EXP or whatever it gives (in the future), but rather because they want to be there for fun; kinda like GM events aren't mandatory and aren't a guarantee of any meaningful rewards, but you elect to participate, or choose to grind or whatever else. There are people who specifically have mules for specific PQs because they enjoy doing them, and I know they would rather just continue doing the PQ than have to be forced to consistently kill their characters over and over again or make a new one and level it up to that point.

    3. I did not know this.

    tl;dr- doesn't have to be implemented right now, just something to think about, I know it's probably been suggested before. I just think it would give people more options to be together and meet cool people, and the people who aren't interested aren't being forced to participate anyway.
     
  5. CaptainNemo
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    CaptainNemo Selkie Jr.

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    1. An actual overhaul is significantly different than adjusting skills able to be used, or player stats in general, as is suggested by yourself and SubterlaborSubterlabor above.

    2a. I disagree that the time-sink is solely on finding a group, as it's not just time spent, it's time spent x gains acquired. PQing is hemorrhaging pot costs, star costs, etc, with very little in return to supplement that (save for LPQ/OPQ with the amount of capes/earrings you can get to break even, or Maze PQ for elixir/p.elixir farming). Lack of gacha tickets also comes into play when talking about gains from PQing vs grinding. Your point here about not knowing what you get from grinding is weird, as you can literally look at what you're going to get from grinding on specific mobs from the library drop tables. If you're leeching you're obviously not getting item gains.

    2b. I dislike the idea of making something more accessible simply for the fact it's a potential best in slot item. If it is a best in slot item, even more of a reason to limit how to acquire it. If you're not planning your character in advance in a MMO, seems silly to complain later you missed something due to poor planning. I personally have many PQ mules as I enjoy helping friends that want to run PQ's, so I understand doing it for fun/doing it just to carry people through. Doesn't change my stance on it.
     
  6. Naveh
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    Naveh Slime

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    7:31 PM
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    I disagree mainly because its will be less GMS-Like, which is an imporant factor. For example KPQ, I liked that KPQ was 21-30. No people leeching their characters, no bishop skills all over KPQ map. No higher levels taking all the EXP from the mobs. No people trying to abuse the reward system (For example overall scroll are worth some mesos).

    Keeps the PQs genuine as it should be with the right crowd.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. OP
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    intimmydator
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    intimmydator Slime

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    My only suggestion regards to adjusting skills is just to lock out the kind you can use to specific jobs, and while I don't know how hard coding is for Maplestory, I don't believe it would be super difficult to apply "you can not use this skill here" checks to PQ maps. And this is on top of whatever changes they choose to apply to the PQs they have in the works.

    KPQ, LPQ, OPQ you will at the very least break even. I'll agree that you're going to burn more potions for EPQ, MPQ, and PPQ, but EPQ currently makes it worth it by blasting EXP into you and having really solid earrings (and it's location isn't as annoying to get to), whereas the other two are both remote and not particularly amazing. Gacha tickets aren't guaranteed to drop while grinding, while obviously not a 0% droprate, but I would say the PQs I would say are fine as is (KPQ, LPQ, OPQ) give you a decent gacha reward at best (good scrolls, equips to NPC), and a bad gacha reward at worst (bad scrolls, potions). Whereas a gacha ticket can give you great-amazing rewards at best (do I even need examples), and awful rewards at worst (axe for accuracy, untradeable 1 off potions). I've always viewed party quests as something supposed to be a side option to grinding that should be comparable, but not a replacement. If you make a character and get it to 50 and do one (albeit tedious) quest, you get unlimited* access to buying arguably the best in slot hat for a majority of your maple career and 5 free entries. You can blow it up repeatedly, toss and pick up multiple in the same run, and be dead through the entire thing, but it's easily obtainable and sellable from 50-200. But 2/2/2/2 earrings that you have to complete 40 party quests for should be impossible to reobtain because of being level 56.

    GMS did eventually remove the level limits on PQs, but it was so far gone into being solo-story by that point that it didn't matter. In my vision, a bishop would at best be walking around just like a level 21 mage and then firing off devastating magic claws. But all the mobs would keep their original levels, so as long as you're within the level range, you'd still get EXP, just like if you were in a party with a level 30 player currently. There's nothing currently stopping you from making 3 accounts, loading one up with good equips so that KPQ takes 10-15 minutes, and then just farming 3 chances at the desirable rewards anyway, you'd just have to find it worth the tedium, and most people who have those kind of resources probably aren't waiting for an opportunity at a low chance for 2m scrolls.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2023
  8. CaptainNemo
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    CaptainNemo Selkie Jr.

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    Z-helm requires more set up than just what you're describing, and your entire argument after that statement loses all value to me. This seems like a very naive/oversimplified take.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. OP
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    intimmydator
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    intimmydator Slime

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    There's almost always someone selling zhelms. Yeah it requires more to set up, but there is going to be someone willing to sell. You can sit in the L/E/O/P/MPQ area all day and spam that you're looking for people and spend hours waiting. The setup of getting 3 level 21-30 people shouldn't be harder than a squad ready to kill zakum, but it is. I only have a sample size of myself, but I didn't even add LMPQ to this list because I've never seen or heard anyone do it or look for members.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2023
  10. Spectree
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    Spectree Horny Mushroom

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    Doing pq when hitting the maximal level is actually having very fun to me. You can feel you're strong while not op. Higher level chars, even limited to certain skills, would still be op.

    A way I would suggest, is to let pq-unique stuff (equips or even cards) be transferable within a single account.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2023
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    make all pq give points , with there being a cap per pq. next make a shop that takes alot of points and has an account tradable end game ring ( to have enough points for the ring need to have done all the pq)

    watch all the sweats make a mule on their main account and grind for the ring, making all the pq active again
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Creative Creative x 2
  12. CaptainNemo
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    CaptainNemo Selkie Jr.

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    Think this would be interesting. Would help fill out non-event ring slots and breathe some life back into the PQ scene.
     
  13. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Zakum

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    If there was some way for PQ items to be tradeable between the account's characters I would really like to get some EPQ earrings, depending on the job I believe the LPQ glasses would also be useful
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

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