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Scrolling for Secondary Stats (and why you shouldn't bother)

Discussion in 'Guides' started by beegoratto, Feb 6, 2024.

  1. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    Gonna try to keep this super short and sweet.

    Let's start with some 4th grade math that I hope everyone here knows: the distributive property. If you do not know what this is, please go here.

    The distributive property states:
    Code:
    a(b+c) = ab + ac
    How does this apply to MapleLegends? There is a common misconception that scrolling for secondary stats increases your total stat gain from MW20 because your base main stat will be higher. This fails to account for stat gains for your base secondary stat as well.

    Let's take a look!
    Archers
    Code:
    1.1(Base STR) + 1.1(Base DEX) = 1.1(Base STR + Base DEX)
    Night Lords
    Code:
    1.1(Base LUK) + 1.1(Base DEX) = 1.1(Base LUK + Base DEX)
    The distributive property states that the total stat product is the same!

    Now let's look at some example builds.
    Archers (for Nisrock)
    archerbasestats.png

    Night Lords (for Red Craven)
    nlbasestats.png

    You'll notice that the total stats across all builds is the same! Wow!

    As long as your total base stats and the total stats you gain from Equips are the same, then your total final product stats even after MW20 will also be the same! The only time this isn’t true is if you manage to hit a break point in one base stat without reducing the other, for example: you have 801 LUK and 59 DEX, you can -1 LUK and +1 DEX and cheat out 1 extra stat point of value from MW20 (since you are now reaching a multiple of 10 on DEX without losing one on LUK) but this is gear independent and has more to do with rounding and breakpoints.

    What does this mean for you?
    In general, you should be scrolling for whatever is cheapest. If you're an Archer scrolling your Overall, DEX tends to be cheaper than STR! (and no, I promise you, that +5 HP does not matter at all). If you're a Night Lord scrolling earrings, LUK scrolls tend to be cheaper than DEX!

    There are exceptions to this, such as if you have multiple attackers and want to share a DEX earring across them, or if you don't have access to MW20/MW30 yourself and want to optimize over wasting as little stats as possible when you do get access to it. The former is a totally valid case, and I encourage you to scroll whatever is best for your set up. The latter means you're poor and you should be scrolling for whatever is cheapest anyways. Just keep in mind there are downsides to having min base secondary stat as well (such as when you get Event Equips and now you can't reset any secondary stat into your main stat anymore).

    Please stop wasting your money and driving up the cost of main stat scrolls for other classes.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2024 at 7:37 PM
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  2. Whisp
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    Whisp Horny Mushroom

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    So now we can ping you on Discord so you can link this thread?
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2024
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  3. OP
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    beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    let me out
     
  4. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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  5. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Sad LUK archer noises.
     
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  6. twing1
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    twing1 Pink Teddy

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    If a person were to build their character the way you are advocating, how would the lack of MW20 impact their ability to wear equips that require a certain secondary stat threshold to wear?

    EDIT: Jk, just read the last paragraph.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2024
  7. OP
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    beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    They should adjust to whatever level of MW they have access to. The distributive property does not only work for MW20 (multiplier of x1.1) but ALL levels of MW. There will be a small amount of stat lost when said player runs content with other players with MW20 (to the tune of usually less than 5 stats total) but the amount of time before they will have access to MW20 is negligible in the grand scheme of things. I encourage players to save money by scrolling whatever is cheapest so they can just buy MW20 themselves and not have to worry about any of this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2024
  8. Ferluci
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    Ferluci Zakum Retired Staff

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    Ookok this is nice and all but a child can see that the total amount of stats stay the same. Not important.

    What does it do with your range? Is one higher DPM than the other?

    I'm so fcking rich on my BM I don't need MW20 to use my bow. Where does this fall under? Stronger than a build that relies on MW20?
     
  9. Whisp
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    Whisp Horny Mushroom

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    So the only time this would ever matter is if you built your character to hold your equips with a level of MW that you don't expect you'd have in a party.

    For example, having just enough str to hold a bow at MW0, but then when you have MW10 or MW20 you would waste a very small amount of stats.

    But as Blen said above, this amount of time is extremely small in the grand scheme of things with such a minimal difference in stats that the additional money savings being spent on a better bow for example will almost always offset the wasted 1-2 ap points of stats.
     
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  10. OP
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    beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    I honestly can't tell if you're trolling knowing you but since there are likely some players who will unironically think this:

    Damage ranged is calculated off of your total stat product. In both cases (high secondary stat / low secondary stat) shown above, total stat product is the same. 140 DEX and 880 LUK will give the same damage range as... 140 DEX and 880 LUK.
     
  11. Milkydoor
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    Milkydoor Master Chronos

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    Edit: oop i slow posted, but regardless

    I think it's worth mentioning that this assumes one is comfortable with not being able to equip their weapon without MW20, even if they have it.

    You could argue that that's an intentional choice to be inefficient, but it's nice QOL to be able to rebuff immediately without waiting for MW for recasts such as booster. This is especially true if somebody on the squad has 30 and you don't want to waste time dropping 20 and potentially overwriting it.

    Alternatively, one might want access to certain utility (e.g. half the bucc skills, rush, assaulter) without needing MW. Or they're a bucc and are absolutely desperate for those energy orb/snatch points. Or they're multi-attacking and want the independence.

    Then, one can argue that keeping base stat low minimises overstatting. In conclusion, please stop calling me poor.
     
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  12. Whisp
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    Whisp Horny Mushroom

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    If you're paying extra to minimize base stat then doesn't that mean you're rich rather than poor?
     
  13. Milkydoor
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    Milkydoor Master Chronos

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    the rat was mw-shaming my nl and it deeply offended me
     
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  14. abe27342
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    abe27342 Orange Mushroom

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    i love the distribute property, its one of my all-time favorites
     
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  15. OP
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    beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    truly one of the properties of all time
     
  16. OP
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    Certainly those are valid arguments. The main misconception this post is trying to address is the oft-parroted "fact" that scrolling for secondary stats gives you more damage. Which is false. You get the same damage.

    If you want to optimize around rebuffing quicker that's it's own issue I think and probably up to the individual to decide.

    but also i'm going to keep calling you and your ilk poor :^)
     
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  17. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    You can make the person MW30 faster by using MW20 and unequipping their weapon. :^)
     
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  18. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    i don't know about this, i was reading kiwi shadower journal and kiwi has minimum base stats
     
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  19. OP
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    beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    yes but kiwi also understands math and knows it's not optimal and does it purely for personal satisfaction

     
  20. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Zakum

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    Be a warrior and don't have to worry about secundary status
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2024
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