The Grand Gachapon thread

Aside from Languages post regarding enfranchising new players, which is fantastic and on point, another reason:

There shouldn't be. Some scrolls/items should be included at high level places such as ToT and Bosses. But they already have the privilege of grinding at the highest meso/npc rate. The market will be healthier if players with a propensity to sell receive mostly randomized rewards rather than farm for an exact item at an exact place specifically to use it.

Think of it this way:

When a player farms and uses a scroll, the price level for the item is ? and it doesn't help the market stabilize
When a player farms and attempts to sell an item, it helps the market stabilize

 

Maybe a little drawing would help people understand.

 

I'm not keeping up with the posts or anything but something does need to be done to ensure end game content to be reachable by the average high level player. Currently all we have is Zakum and Horntail(broken) and trying to land 7-10 30%s, if scrolls become farmable this will give us high level players something to do that will consume a lot of time other than afk farm gach offline and level to 200.

Please this is a great idea to add unique/rare scrolls and items to drops . Self found godly gear sounds really fun!.

 

The major problem with this is that mesos do not equate to the items you actually need. You can have all the mesos in the world. But if something just isn't for sale, it isn't for sale. There's only X many chaos scrolls, pacs, 30% gun scrolls, and pinakas out in the market. When other players have not acquired these items (or sell them for absolutely ridiculous amounts) you are SOL. The only reprieve you have is the ability to do the work and farm the items you need yourself.

Don't believe me? Ask Redwine. He literally had billions of mesos but no matter what couldn't get enough gun scrolls for his corsair. It's part of the reason he quit. Maybe not all of it. But I'm sure a big part.

 

I'm NOT arguing for them not being farmable by high level players. I'm arguing FOR them being farmable by anyone. The fact that mesos are useless is part of the problem, but the solution isn't to have everyone self-farming items. If everyone is sourcing their own items, that is self-sufficiency, which has no impact whatsoever on the economy. This discussion was started to find a way to have a healthy market where the players who need items have a way to obtain them, all I'm saying is that the best option available to fix the issue isn't to have everyone going out and farming the items themselves.

While I applaud the effort and humor. The 'bad economic design' section doesn't actually make much sense.
Why can't he find any equips or scrolls? I'm not even sure what suggestions you're using for that section of the comic.

 

Obviously "everyone" can't farm them or you'd be forced to put everything onto green snails. Killing them would be like opening a pinata. That would pretty much kill the game right there and then.

So no, "everyone" can't farm effectively at the beginning. It's bad game design. Players need to make their characters strong before they can literally farm everything. But yes... I should point out that everyone has the potential to reach 4th job and beyond.

 

Will they ever be added to the game at all?

 

Taken a little literally, but yes obviously I agree. Green snails shouldn't drop every item in the game. However there should be some economic avenue open to all players. As I've said before, the value of being high level and getting the option to farm all lower level content is enough value for your time.

Also, continuously calling everything 'bad game design' (I've seen this maybe 3-4 times from you) is pretty self defeating if you can never provide anything to back it up...

 

Thank god for that. I thought I saw some disappear.

 

^^Rip end game goals?

 

How am I supposed to back it up?

You literally just have to ask yourself... does this make sense? Is it fair? Is gameplay still fun and competitive?

If you undermine a high-level player's character by making them completely unable to get the items they want through killing monsters, then no, it doesn't make sense and it isn't fair. Is it fun having to continually make new characters? Maybe a few people might think so? But the fast majority of people will get tired of it. Is the gameplay competitive anymore? Well, since you pretty much killed a level 140+ character's usefuleness and there's no incentive for them to train anymore, I'd say it's a resounding no.

If you admit the decision is horribly stupid (as Nikki has) but still think it's necessary to 'fix' the economy. I'm sorry, but you're still wrong.

 

I'm just gunna say, please reread my posts. I've tried to clarify this numerous times. I'm not, and I don't see anyone, arguing to make it impossible for players to farm scrolls they need. You're arguing with no one on half of your replies to me.

My argument is that it shouldn't be the SOLE way to obtain these items, and should in fact be the MINORITY. A healthy economy with scrolls needed on offer is preferable to self-sufficiency.

 

I think white/chaos scrolls will have to only be available by a low chance from the high level bosses. Not shit like Timer or Dyle. Like, the actual bosses that have millions of HP and require teams to take down.

 

Lionheart im pretty sure that counts as a drop even if its a "high level monster"

 

I think we got off on the wrong foot when I was speaking against Nikki, who basically said lower level players should have the exclusive ability to farm the high-end items... and ToT needs more mesos. lul.

And when I said FORCING players to trade with one another is a bad idea (because they have to of course because they can't get what they need themselves), you said it was a "healthy economy".

So maybe you're the one who needs to know what we were talking about in context.

 

Can we get clarification here?...

 

How do you even 'force' that. Spear scrolls drop only if your a bowman? Int scrolls drop only for beginners? While its a dramatic and evocative image, it doesn't make sense, is a strawman argument, and no one is arguing in favor of that anyway.