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Dragon Blood Improvement!

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Buttery Bear, Jul 29, 2019.

  1. OP
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    Buttery Bear
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    Buttery Bear Orange Mushroom

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    11:11 AM
    ButterBear
    Dragon Knight
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    Kingdom
    I appreciate you being mild in your response. I don't think any skill should be absolutely useless. All skills should have their own usefulness to cater to someone's playstyle. I want to improve upon the game where I see it has weak areas, but people are treating me like the bad guy for having the audacity.
    It really is too bad all those skills you've listed are useless and if I knew more about them, I'd make suggestions to improve those too. I'd like people to have more choice in how they'd like to play. That's the fun of RPGs. I don't think it's impractical to merely make suggestions about how to go about fixing problems we experience. It takes no time at all to read and consider. I'm not calling for action, just for people to consider. It'd be really nice if action was taken, but that's not what I'm here for. Maybe I should have explained that, but I'm not in the wrong for trying.

    The purpose of me posting in the first place was not to buff Dragon Blood, but to make it a viable option to use your SP on. Make it worth the cost. My proposition might have been an outright buff, but there's ways to fix that. I still like my solution of making it not cancel out other buffs, but maybe we could make it give a weaker attack buff as well, or increase the HP/MP per tick.
     
  2. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    You're right, it's not a massive issue. And that's exactly why it's impractical to address it, especially when the proposed solution would probably add up to days of coding and testing and headaches for the staff all in the name of making a single skill that no other Dark Knights care for "fixed" so that it stacks. This is the reality of what you are asking for past the lofty ideals.

    The references I made are to show the impact that any buff to Dark Knights would be. It's to show that yeah, 12 attack would make an incredible difference in DPM and would push them into the top of cleavers. If it were 6 attack it would probably make up about half the difference, which would still be too powerful.

    Offering solutions isn't helpful. If you want to just give feedback, fine, but it's a fool's errand to prance around and pretend that offering solutions is valuable in and of itself. Everyone already knows there are a lot of useless skills, and anyone who has thought about the work it takes to make changes to the client understands that this change is a lot of work. Not only that, but what's been said here has been said a hundred times before, not just in this forum but in dozens of other Old School Maple Servers. "What if attack skills could stack"[Edit: Wrong word use, changed 'buff' -> 'stack'] isn't a new thought and I've personally seen it in this forum a few times. It's not new or creative, it's just the same rehashed thought that's come along many times before. The GMs are perfectly aware that they could make them stack, but it would take a large amount of effort to rework buffs in the client and it's neither viable or helpful to suggest it again to them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
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  3. Zooploop
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    Zooploop Master Chronos

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    In the grand scheme of things, yea. The highest point of the game consists entirely of bossing, people aren't upgrading their gear to grind harder. A buff that is straight extra weapon attack buffs 4th job more than 3rd job. Even if it were as small as 5 ATK people would instantly max it. That's why that idea is already shot from the get-go. As I or Alyosha have already said, the most realistic buff would be making it 18-20 ATK.

    The forum also isn't the get together and fix things board, it's a discussion where you're free to disagree and criticize ideas as well. I already saw you said you want to make every skill usable. I sympathize with the notion but how will that affect skills that provide the same type of buff later down the line? Does that include even first job attack and buff skills? How far along should Iron Body be considered useful?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  4. OP
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    Buttery Bear
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    Buttery Bear Orange Mushroom

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    ButterBear
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    What you see as the most important aspect of playing Maplestory is completely subjective. Like, we all play this game for completely different reasons. Getting to level 200, a clear goal, doesn't entail beating all bosses. I do, in fact upgrade my gear to grind harder. It's a real achievement to kill a monster which took 4 hits, now takes 2, and then 1.
    As I've mentioned above, there's many ways going about making a skill balanced while effective. One I'm fond of is increasing the price paid to use the skill; Like having 2%HP/MP per tick or increase the rate of the ticks. As you've suggested: increasing the flat damage to being more than what store-bought potions can provide. I don't rightly care if the skill is wanted by all, I just want it more useful than useless. What's important to me is that 1. The nature of Dragon Blood is retained, and 2. It's useful.

    Dude this is the "Suggestions" board. Do you know what that word means? A suggestion is just that.
    I don't exactly know the full repercussions of the things I suggest may be, which is why I look to talk about it with the public and improve my ideas wherever they may falter. It's almost like we come together to fix things or something. I'm not wrong for sharing my ideas.
     
  5. OP
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    Buttery Bear
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    Buttery Bear Orange Mushroom

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    ButterBear
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    I made a suggestion because this is the forum of suggestions. The very purpose is to see whether your suggestion is viable and get feedback. Otherwise I'd just keep it to myself. "why bother fixing anything because it's all too much work" is not an excuse to not try. There IS a solution to making Dragon Blood useful and worth spending points on. I've never proposed "What if attack skills could buff." Please don't put words in my mouth. Dragon Blood is not an attack. it is a buff. My proposition was "What if Dragon Blood was useful", and I proceeded to give an example of how I think that might work.

    My own solution might not be the best, and you might even have a better one, but it's something worth having a discussion about. But you seem to be trying to convince me that bringing up the topic in the first place was a mistake. You're wrong, and frankly, should be ashamed for trying to shut down discourse. It's just a game. get over yourself.
     
  6. Zooploop
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    Zooploop Master Chronos

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    Suggestions are not free of scrutiny either, you think every time someone has posted one here the first thought given by the GMs was how they were going to make it work? It's if it's even worth making work in the first place. I haven't seen any person in the thread criticize you for sharing your opinion, only of the opinion itself.
     
  7. OP
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    Buttery Bear
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    Buttery Bear Orange Mushroom

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    ButterBear
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    Don't misunderstand me. I am not against having my ideas being criticized or scrutinized. But you seem to take umbrage with the very fact that I would have the audacity to voice a suggestion while the GMs are working on other things. Nothing gets fixed if nobody talks about it. And the nature of Dragon Blood seemed like something that should be brought up.
     
  8. Zooploop
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    Zooploop Master Chronos

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    I've taken no umbrage, my first reply was saying the avenue of making it a straight attack buff would not happen. I even gave in the 2nd paragraph the alternative of having 18 attack. The statement about priorities is not me saying they should not, it's that they will probably not. They likely have a long list of things they want to deal with and making useless skills viable is on the back end of it. Anyone can suggest a improved form or variation of a current skill but if it's not a core skill to the class as of now, you won't see anything for a long time.
     
  9. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Every criticism has been valid so far. Nobody has been trying to shut down discourse, especially not by participating in the discussion. There's not much to say, but maybe we should sum up everything that people have found to be at issue with having Dragon Blood be stackable with other attack potions.

    -The skill becomes redundant in 4th job
    -The skill points are generally better spent on either Power Crash, which in the past was useless and broken, or to go mixed to help with training
    -If it stacked it would make for an incredibly overpowered class with a significant increase to dpm where none is currently needed
    -To make it work and to have it be balanced is time that could be spent on more important projects or events
    -There are much simpler solutions that are much easier to implement

    Those are the criticisms present in the thread. Yeah, the goalposts have moved, backpedaling from "Stack Dragon Blood" into some rendition of "Every skill ought to be useful and Dragon Blood ought to be changed" as clearly defined goals because the first one really isn't a very defensible position when the consequences of stacking attack buffs are considered. It doesn't really answer the question of why it should be changed though. Why should every skill be useful? And why specifically should Dragon Blood be changed? If it's just an opinion on game design then everyone has a right to their own opinion on it. And it seems the opinion of many of the dedicated and knowledgeable Dark Knights is one of apathy.
     
  10. Fraiche
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    Fraiche Pac Pinky Retired Staff

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    Nothing wrong with making a suggestion, people are just preparing you for the reality of how staff are going to react to it. From my experience, they're not wrong. But you seem to have misinterpreted it into thinking people are shooting you down for even suggesting it when your idea was criticised somewhat harshly but not unreasonably.
     
  11. Oradious
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    Oradious Capt. Latanica

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    Stopped reading at pure-PA

    Yes, because 24 MP and 20 HP/4 seconds matter very much for a class with one of the highest, if not the highest HP.

    So, say if you decide to throw your SPs into Dragon Blood, what are you not going to add? Power crash that is useful in certain situations like CWKPQ? I'm genuinely curious.

    Pretty sure he isn't gloating, but stating the repercussions of making the skill a stackable buff, and the repercussions of having an extra 12 attack, even though it might seem like a minuscule value.

    Imagine thinking skills affect a playstyle in a 2d MMORPG.

    Judging by your barrage of counter arguments, it seems like you want to make it viable for 3rd jobs to use. Have you ever thought about how many people actually make proper DrKs that aren't some level 41/50 HB mule? And how many 3rd job DKs are there that are currently active? Out of those 3rd job DKs/people that will play/have played 3rd DKs, how many people actually played the game and grinded through the whole process and not leech their way to 4th? As someone once said, you can't satisfy everyone in the server. If this change is somehow made, more pepegas will emerge and ask for changes on skills that are seemingly useless.

    Now, time to go make my suggestion thread on why Elemental Composition should be buffed, because we need to cater to FP mages who don't wanna mist their way through 3rd job in order to get to 4th.
     
  12. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    24 MP and 20 HP/4 seconds is really not alot of drainage. you'll pot when you get hit by a mob tbh. its literally,
    - Cant make buffs stack with other buffs, the only buff that can do that is "Echo" , this is Nexons fault.
    -Dragon blood is not useless, it gives you +12atk. there are "better" attack pots/buffs to use, but its your CHOICE to use what you want. if you like the animation of dragon blood, then by all means; use the skill

    ** just tested out using Beholder + dragon blood at the same time. even though beholder gives more Watk than dragon blood, it stil says on the topright AND still shows the dragon blood animation**, you just have to manual press it to buff
     
  13. Dvah
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    Dvah Pac Pinky

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    Is this thread is still alive? You can solve the drk issue by switching to hero like I did
     
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  14. ngrman
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    ngrman Stone Golem

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    That's great! Now you have a class more suited to your skill level!
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 9
  15. Dvah
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    Dvah Pac Pinky

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    Maplestory not required skills,it’s not an fps game lol,you push damn buttons and kill monsters... maplestory 2 is different you gotta dodge the attacks and that required skills lul dude I literally laughed a lil bit rn irl
     
  16. itzjaheezy
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    itzjaheezy Chronos

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    so much for being wanted on runs ;(
     
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  17. Dvah
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    Dvah Pac Pinky

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    Yes
     
  18. Drauds
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    Drauds Web Developer Staff Member Web Developer

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    Just buy coke pills lol
     
    • Creative Creative x 4
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  19. Apuntar
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    Apuntar Orange Mushroom

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    Dark knight buffs?

    Shit this man is big brain, I agree with him, and disagree with the level 200 Drk.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  20. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Duck you Companionarino
     

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