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Information My <personal> view on extra channels

Discussion in 'MapleLegends Announcements' started by Kimmy, Mar 20, 2020.

  1. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    We can also move forward better if we can get feedback re: map changes we've made in the past in an effort to create alternatives for meta maps. Have any of the mid-tier maps that were buffed a pretty decent amount tested out? We put a considerable amount of effort with a bunch of the magtia maps. For end-game content, there have been constant re-adjustments to NT maps, dukus/ulu maps, and ToT maps.

    Of course, we are always working on more discussions for other possible changes, but when everyone only looks at the meta maps and don't really try the alternatives we've put out, it's a bit tough to get discussions going in the right direction ^^
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Let me on a test server with access to any character build and I'll smash out numbers for anything.

    OnionF3
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  3. Foxes
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    Foxes Dark Stone Golem

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    11:31 PM
    I think another factor needs to be noted. While I brushed on it in a previous post, the majority of maps are not made for single individual training or even small group training. Yes closer to big bang maps that fit this description started showing up like a lot of singapore, and big bang reformatted / removed most non small form factor maps, most likely due to lowered populations, but there's a reason the majority of the current meta maps are these newer small format high density maps, e.g., GS2, mannies pre nerf, 7f, etc.

    The biggest issue is that the majority of large maps were made for large groups or multiple individual players to share. Look at any old school map layout and you'll see this is the case. Sadly I'm having trouble finding good high res examples of map layouts, but I'll include what I can. Below is an image of path of time <3>. This map is huge, and for a solo player to control the entire map, they must traverse / clear 9 total floors / platforms. This generally takes a few minutes for fourth job users at the very least, if not a significant amount more. I know this due to card hunting / farming equips in these areas. For third job users, those who the enemy levels are allegedly adjusted for, this takes significantly longer since single target attacks can easily take 3-4 hits if not more to kill one enemy. I'd guess upwards of 8-10 hits if the user is unfunded / not on a meta viable 3rd job class, not to mention some users lack mobility 3rd job. This means clearing the map once takes upwards of ten to fifteen minuites when the user of the appropriate level without high funding attempts to clear the map once. I remember doing this on my pali who was only good here at slightly above meta level due to the enemies being one of the few fire weak enemies. Even then, when I was 2-3 hitting the enemies with single target attacks, I was gaining significantly lower EPM than I was at mannies at the time.

    Now you could argue a user could organize a group of ~ 4-6 people to train / grind here, and give 1-3 platforms per person, and I'd argue this was the intended method of training for these maps in the past, even going as far as to say that a party of 3-6 might be inefficient, and to assume there'd be ~9 solo players with some parties between them back in the day. The simple fact of the matter is that this is simply never going to be the meta again. The mapowner system, as good as it is for smaller maps like GS, means that sharing maps is directly discouraged to the majority of players, and partying with 3-6 people would take a significant amount of time to organize, and provide significantly reduced exp any time any user couldn't keep up or afked. In addition, most "meta" maps are meta because they're easy to organize and control, most are solo, with the occasional duo map like 7f. Despite being relatively good exp in theory, most of TOT is far too large to ever be meta, and is generally too tanky until 4th job to be viable, despite the fact that you start getting tot quests at 91.

    [​IMG]


    Now you might claim that only a small minority of maps are huge sprawling maps like this, and therefore there should still be viable maps. This is incorrect. Almost every map in the game from pre bb is large and sprawling. Look at all of ant tunnel, hhg1, orbis tower, omega sector, etc., it requires at least 3-6 people on the map to control the spawns, and the norm was sharing maps and just staying on your own platform. Even with the current server population boom, it's unrealistic to ever expect this to happen again especially with the current mapowner system. It was a giant culture shock to me the first time I played on the server and tried taking up one platform on ant tunnel 1, with two people o n the lower half and being told to leave, and denied when I asked to party. It felt extremely unfriendly and toxic, and not at all like the original maplestory I knew. The spontaneous interactions you'd get sharing a map with someone were pretty great as well, but it's just not realistically going to happen. Almost all social interaction is done through PQs, guilds, or bossing now. Once you're past the pq phase (21-55, maybe 85 if old pqs get buffed / revived), you stop socially interacting anywhere near as much until you start bossing.

    Now you could try to buff the larger maps, but until some of those enormous maps are cut down in size, or offer alternatives users will likely not use them, and they'll be relegated to card hunting spots or the occasional off meta leeching spot.

    While you're asking for feedback on "balance buffs" to maps, I believe I've given more than enough feedback on the issues with slightly buffing neo tokyo in previous posts. Other than that buff, I personally have not seen a map balance post outside of the Febuary one in the entire time I've been active (since September of 2019), so either these are getting burried / not announced, I simply haven't payed enough attention, or the map balance cycle takes over six months. Additionally I definitely feel like there needs to be a lot more transparency around how buffs / nerfs are determined including getting feedback prior to them happening. One person I know voiced the opinion that "the balance team needs less level 200s who have stopped leveling and more people actually in the trenches progressing characters." I don't fully agree with their sentiment as people who have reached that level certianly have experience and can provide valuable feedback, but it does feel like some of these changes are being made by people who don't have to experience the effects of their changes past minor testing, and simply listen to feedback / discuss alternatives for multiple month long cycles.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. asdfjkliang
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    asdfjkliang Selkie Jr.

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    Buff newties map! I miss seeing people grind at newties back in gms
     
  5. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Back in pre-4th job days, this inefficiency was fixed by having multiple attacker parties (1 attacker per area) and a rotating priest using HS. I'm not sure how this server is going to sort things out, but with the influx of people, leech itself is going to become somewhat of a luxury (high demand, not enough supply). I'm hoping this community can sort things out and learn to be creative with their solutions to a growing population.

    I've suggested this in game, but I think seasonal buffs to certain regions by tweaking the levels of certain town would be a fun concept. Buff the mobs, give them higher HP, exp, spawn rates, and drops. It'll encourage people to explore not only new areas, but the story and quests involved with those maps. Tie that with seasonal events (NLC/Magatia for Halloween, El Nath for Christmas etc.) and you've got a much more interactive Maple world.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  6. PrettyLights
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    PrettyLights Timer

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    11:31 PM
    I really hope we can see some changes whether they be a new channel or two or some more changes to maps, or maybe both. The recent changes are really good but it still feels slightly tilting at times trying to find a place to train or farm, even if it's not a meta map. It is really full almost anywhere useful, and it's great to see this many people online, but it's also frustrating having to invest so much time just to find an area to play in. I imagine this being even tougher on new cleric players as their options are very limited.
     

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