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Important New System for White Scrolls (Feedback Thread)

Discussion in 'MapleLegends Announcements' started by Nise, Jul 6, 2021.

How do you feel about the Prestigious Coin system?

Poll closed Jul 14, 2021.
  1. Strongly support

    190 vote(s)
    34.4%
  2. Slightly support

    130 vote(s)
    23.6%
  3. Neutral

    90 vote(s)
    16.3%
  4. Slightly oppose

    71 vote(s)
    12.9%
  5. Strongly oppose

    71 vote(s)
    12.9%
  1. Nightz
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    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    5:42 PM
    Nightz
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    Moderator Post
    Shouldn't have to fear getting banned for sharing a concern.


    On topic: I appreciatie the incentive of such a new system a lot, it's too early to tell if it's the solution we're all looking for but I'm sure things can get polished more whilst more ideas come in. Whether this is with ws/cs dropping or a coin system, from a quick glance at the post I support this kind of direction the staff wants to take.

    Also very much appreciate that something this big gets thrown at the community before to gauge thoughts before being implemented. Could save us from a lot of drama like we've seen with sweeper changes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Jaynus
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    Jaynus Timer

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    3:42 AM
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    Have only glanced through and have not properly digested.

    What I can say is kudos to staff for detailing out the thought process and to involve the community in serious topics such as WS/CS prices.

    THANK YOU
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  3. Disney
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    Disney Red Snail

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    12:42 AM
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    Great idea in general. Coins being a new currency would be nice for cheaper items on the market too. if 100 coins =1 ws 1 coin would be worth roughly around 1.7-2m now. We can sell lower tier eqs for coins and then change those coins into Ws/cs when we need.

    hopefully the coins dropped from bosses are one ETC like for example Rock of time from PB. one boss can drop from 0-5 or lesser depending on rare the staffs want the WS/CS to be and not be like NT Bosses where everyone gets coins on clear.

    Also how would this change might possible affect the people selling ws services? since ws are not going to be tradable and you will have to give all your coins to the person buying said service.

    and if there's gonna be coins please make them not a ETC but instead to something like Setup.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. Tomja
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    Tomja Mano

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    8:42 AM
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    I am sure staff/players went through this already, but why don't we just make bosses drop WS/CS, with a scaled drop rate (changed based on # tries & difficulty of each boss)?

    EDIT: this is just a question out of curiosity. What problems would that cause in game?
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 6
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  5. spammy
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    spammy Slime

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    Jan 18, 2021
    5:42 PM
    I don't really want to comment on the availability of white scrolls as a use item - since it doesn't involve me I'm just a noob.

    TLDR: this will cause inflation.

    However, I want to highlight that this DOES cause inflation - even if you do not acknowledge it. First, lets start with the definition of inflation. Inflation is the general increase in prices in an economy over time. In practice, this means that for x currency, you are able to buy less of y, where y represents any object in the economy.

    As acknowledged in the post, one aspect that contributes to this is
    . However, this is not exactly correct. Inflation occurs when there is more currency in the economy. So what is currency? Currency is any object that is used to facilitate trade due to coincidence of wants. And this is rightly pointed out in
    .

    As such, the generation of ANY object that falls into the definition of currency, would immediately cause inflation (due to meso generation) UNLESS the value of that object is equivalent to that of which it replaces.

    More simply, the total expected value of a boss drop must remain unchanged. This is clearly not the case as the reason for this proposal is to improve boss drops to attract people to do bossing.

    Note to balance team: The very strong implicit assumption in your reasoning is that all WS generated from HT will be used instead of hoarded as a meso sink (even though you acknowledge this it was not applied completely).

    Side note, I am not sure what the point is for being able to sell white scrolls and chaos scrolls for coins. How does this attract people to boss/not boss? All this does is peg the value of white scrolls to chaos scrolls. It could also kill the WS service economy - depending on how difficult it is to hunt the + something
     
    • Informative Informative x 7
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  6. Nguyenqdo
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    Nguyenqdo Orange Mushroom

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    11:42 AM
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    The one thing I hate to hear the most on this server is " The rich get richer". I've said this before and ill say it again. We ALL start off on maple island. We all have the same opportunity to become "rich" how you get there is completely up to the player. MapleTip: Being unlucky isn't a bug.

    This whole socialistic look at maple economy doesn't make sense. The game is built off Capitalism, supply and demand. let's say WS and CS are off the playing field as maple stock other things would be. What stops joe smoe from buying all the sky skis or all the mapleshields it would take up a lot more space but I mean if ws and cs lost value as a maple stock people would just find a different method to add a value to.

    I have more to add I just need to sleep on my thoughts
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 12
    • Agree Agree x 5
  7. Jafel
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    Jafel Capt. Latanica

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    Bro. This game is the libright wet dream. You put more time and effort in, and it results in more gains. That's how it works. Especially if you just follow the meta non-stop and just make a couple of mages. There's a minor aspect of RNG and luck involved, but that can be absolved by time and effort invested.

    That doesn't mean whales should be able to ruin the market for casuals. These should be able to co-exist without one cannibalising the other.
     
    • Agree Agree x 18
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Floris
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    Floris Capt. Latanica

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    5:42 PM
    My bad I was rather vague in explaining it.
    In your suggestion: WS/CS dropping from bosses, there is one parameter: the drop rate of WS/CS by various bosses.
    In Nise's coin system there are two parameters: the coin drop rate of various bosses and the exchange rate of coins to WS/CS.

    This might seem like equal systems to you (or not idk) but they are not. In the coin system staff can for example increase the number of coins dropped by a boss on average, while also changing the ratio of the prices of WS/CS. It just allows for a slightly more flexible system, generally systems like that are easier to balance as there will be more options;
    Bosses dropping X coins at Y cost for a WS has more solutions given a dataset than just the system of Z WS drops / boss kill.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  9. Jafel
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    Jafel Capt. Latanica

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    Bro FlorisFloris aren't you like eternally remaking characters and never get beyond 2nd job? What would you know about this?
     
    • Informative x 11
    • Disagree x 4
    • Great Work x 1
    • Friendly x 1
    • Creative x 1
  10. KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    Finally, a way to get WS by bossing with coins. Now I wonder how this may work since you could get coins from easier bosses like Pap? or coins from bosses that give you points on this current event? Also the number of coins per boss and if the amount is random as well a boss like Zak perhaps should give more coins than Ravana. The idea is good if we can make this work I'm feeling great abot the game (on top fo the transform restriction removal)
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. aussietinask
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    aussietinask Horny Mushroom Retired Staff

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    As a brief reminder quickly reading over early responses to that monster of a post (srs it’s so long):

    - Coins will be tradable, so the intention is that they can be split for profit on bossing runs
    - This is NOT the bossing change mentioned in our roadmap, but is aimed to further improve bossing in tandem with the change
     
    • Informative Informative x 11
    • Like Like x 1
  12. xRuru
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    xRuru Slime

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    The post states WS/CS would be made untradeable. If you couldn’t exchange any collected scrolls for coins the new system would automatically punish players who had scrolls saved.

    While the new coin system directly contributes to inflation, I feel as if it will be a healthier kind of inflation. (Not all inflation is bad). As it stands right now ML removed the ability for CS to drop from random mobs that dropped them in the original game. WS and CS only exist in Gacha/raffle pools. As the server grows more players want/need more CS/WS but an unsubstantial amount of them are added. If it’s a 1% roll for both scrolls from gach for example, that’s 1 scroll added per 100 new players.

    By adding a new currency that can be obtained by playing the game normally it provides a way to work towards highly sought after items while:
    1. Eliminating some of the RNG element for getting them.
    2. Increasing the profitability of bossing. (Because as it stands bossing rarely makes you an excessive number of Meso.) This is one of the big reasons for this rework anyway.
    3. Minimal impact on existing players so they are not punished by playing the game before this change.

    Overall I think it’s a good idea for them to implement a system like this. Depending on the price of the scrolls and which bosses drop coins/ the rate they drop them people may still only have WS/CS from gach for several weeks/months after implementation.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. kiln
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    kiln Pink Teddy

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    Awesome stuff!

    I feel like some people are missing the point. The point of coins is to add some way of taxing high-value transactions, and the point of having them drop from bosses is to improve bossing profits (and make WS/CS easier to obtain). I don't think this system (as described right now) will do much else than that, but I think these two changes so far are pretty fair.

    Interested in seeing what the "something else" will be.

    Edit: On second thought, the coins are really just a tax for people scrolling untradables since you can bypass the trade lock with service if "something else" is too difficult to get.
     
  14. aussietinask
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    aussietinask Horny Mushroom Retired Staff

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    The theories behind this post look interesting, so I wanted to tackle this post first (will try to address more at home since I’m still in office).

    interesting point on the definition of inflation. I would say that WS weren’t solely currency, because their value would usually be converted to mesos, and the number of WS was mostly applicable after applying ‘ws @190m’ for example. The base ‘currency’ is always mesos as the baseline. Under this definition, maybe WS being known as a bond might be more accurate? Something that you are generally confident will hold value, and WS price increases now generally beat inflation (not sure if I explained that properly, lmk if confusing).

    this change aims to not generate more meso in currency, and any value comes from player to player trades (as the coins cannot be exchanged for raw meso, a player needs to buy them). As such, I don’t think

    just to clarify as well (I mentioned this above), but this change itself would not be designed to encourage bossing (bosses dropping coins is the only direct change this makes to bossing). This change is to tackle the white scroll demand problem identified.

    the fact that bosses drop coins purely adds extra to boss drops, and should increase the value of bossing.

    Could you clarify what you mean in the note to balance team? I don’t quite understand.

    WS and CS would be pegged here. I can’t see anything particularly wrong with that (I actually thought for a long time if this was an issue). But if someone comes up with something I’d love to head it!
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  15. Trion
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    Trion Capt. Latanica

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    Since Staff is trying to make WS/CS easier to obtain or slightly less abuse able ... is this the appropriate time to mention if we can finally have all dark scroll weapon 30%s droppable by some type of mob? As it stands now only certain weapon types of 30s are droppable my mobs but others are either hard to obtain bosses or not regular mobs or nothing at all.

    I always felt 30% scrolls was the poor man's version of a WS anyway
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  16. Camazotz
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    Camazotz Pink Teddy

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    I think it's neat.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  17. Floris
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    Floris Capt. Latanica

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    Correct, but why would you bring that up?

    The only two things I commented on where:
    - Suggesting a potential concern that I didn't see in the thread
    - Arguing that two parameter systems might be easier to balance than a one parameter system

    Neither of those things require player experience. The first was merely a suggestion, the latter is based on complex system theory.

    EDIT:
    upload_2021-7-6_13-26-18.png

    Ahh my bad, should've figured.
     
    • Like Like x 9
    • Informative Informative x 3
  18. yurain
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    yurain Windraider

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    12:42 AM
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    A concern is how many coins and frequency they drop in whatever boss run. And how it relates to an eventual ws/cs.
    It is can be very troublesome is every other boss run ends up with some coins that needs to be sold and spilt.
    I might be lazy but I really don't want to keep track of that many spreadsheet dealing with spilts and % or what not.

    Also, can fresh ws/cs still be tradeable once.
    It would help to facilitate the selling of ws/cs from gacha and simplify the process for the lucky new players that got them early.
    Just think the whole coin exchange system can be a bit too complicated or custom for someone new into an old school server.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  19. aussietinask
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    aussietinask Horny Mushroom Retired Staff

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    I think the problem is that white scrolls were used as both as an investment tool and as an end game item. So while we are suggesting adding an extra parameter, our doing so was also to separate the two functions, and I think that’s worth it.

    kind of having a bit of trouble wrapping my head around the proper terminology, let me know if it didn’t make sense
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  20. akakakak415
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    akakakak415 Blue Snail

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    ???
    Would it be a bad idea to make an npc that sells ws/cs at a set price?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1

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