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Important New System for White Scrolls (Feedback Thread)

Discussion in 'MapleLegends Announcements' started by Nise, Jul 6, 2021.

How do you feel about the Prestigious Coin system?

Poll closed Jul 14, 2021.
  1. Strongly support

    190 vote(s)
    34.4%
  2. Slightly support

    130 vote(s)
    23.6%
  3. Neutral

    90 vote(s)
    16.3%
  4. Slightly oppose

    71 vote(s)
    12.9%
  5. Strongly oppose

    71 vote(s)
    12.9%
  1. BananaPie
    Offline

    BananaPie Selkie Jr.

    214
    67
    210
    Dec 22, 2019
    Male
    12:38 AM
    You lost me at why there's any need to compensate for new players getting potentially shafted by this change.

    Does that mean I should be compensated cause my class was nerfed to oblivion cause they destroyed HH? No, right? That's just how it is.

    Things are already better under the new approach:
    Old: Get WS now, sell for 200m, buy stuff, be broke from 130 onwards cause bossing drops neither gacha or any drops worth anything substantial
    New: Get WS now, sell for lower, buy slightly less stuff, not be broke from 130 onwards cause you actually get something from bosses.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Iamnotme123
    Offline

    Iamnotme123 Red Snail

    6
    32
    16
    Mar 27, 2021
    12:38 AM
    Nottelling
    Camper
    123
    no
    I really like the proposal, of course the exact numbers and chances would need to be balanced properly, but thats a another conversation entirely.

    The only thing I would be worried about is more tax evasion, the coin could be used a lot more for lower value trades. I was wondering whether it would be possible to have a flat tax on the trading of these prestigious coins? So say trading coins with another player (regardless of whether they are paid for in mesos/items or gifted for free) would incur a set flat fee per coin.

    This would probably also require the coins to be made undroppable (can an item be undroppable yet still tradeable?).

    I think this would help with inflation, exact fee amount to be balanced of course.
     
  3. -ovv
    Offline

    -ovv Horntail

    2,246
    880
    500
    Feb 23, 2020
    Male
    5:38 PM
    -ovv
    Beginner
    200
    Honor
    Low level players get coins besides gacha by playing the game and leveling up.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 2
  4. Pixel
    Offline

    Pixel Mixed Golem

    173
    74
    178
    Jun 17, 2018
    7:38 PM
    DragonMaid
    Outlaw
    90
    That's different
    Bigger amount of players meant the money was going split among them vs more white scrolls for fewer players which mean
    in a sample of 20 is like saying

    Covid was
    New player : 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 Old players : 10
    New meta will be:
    New player : 1 1 1 1 1 Old players: 15

    Situation presented:

    Current new player starting as DK vs New player starting as DK both going Dexless:

    Current :
    without WS drop:
    can afford 15+ Dex overall, can afford decently scrolled sky skis , wg for 15m or zak too
    with WS drop:
    can afford better versions of them , dex equips for not miss, maybe even dex neos etc scroll zak/scar for dex.

    End result: can still boss regardless, not the best not the worst

    New:
    Without ws drop:
    can afford the WG, same overall, sky skis going either a shitty +1 from a WS less player or a perfect one out of reach, have to stick with slow speed spears , probaly 60%'d, will have to wait to be taken in a zrun for their zhelm if bad scroll (not just ws/cs rng happen)

    with deflated WS drop:
    Can pick between weapon or better equips not both, still sky skiis would probably be out of reach since most of them would be perfected so they just upgrade equips and stick with a shit weapon, boss runs become more elitist and they're only invited to barebones Boss rush, probably unable to kill or very very long, torturous runs, their good luck means less.

    It's never stated anywhere, where do you get that from?


    Anyways i'm done for now, i will read your replies/disagrees but i will no longer engage , have a good day
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 15
  5. Jvcki
    Offline

    Jvcki Slime

    20
    5
    35
    Aug 2, 2019
    8:38 PM
    Jvcki
    that's a lot of assumptions there lol

    just wondering what you think about the new players who don't manage to get ws/cs from gach early on? it seems like you're grossly overestimating the amount that do and if anything this change would help people who aren't extremely lucky more
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  6. whatdatoast
    Offline

    whatdatoast Windraider

    469
    122
    301
    Apr 9, 2020
    5:38 PM
    whatdatoast
    Bowman
    Just want to say, that I think this is a great idea. One point I haven't seen mentioned is that breaking down WS/CS into a smaller more affordable currency also allows poorer players to speculate (or avoid taxes on). For example, if you could only buy bitcoin in 1 btc increments, then only whales could ever enter the market (as is the current WS speculation market).

    For this reason, rich players often save a lot of meso specifically for event time, when lots of new players join. They buy up whatever limited thing for the event (chairs, cheaper WS/CS, maple shields, etc), hold for a a few months, then make back 150%+ profit quickly. But to really take advantage of this, you need to have a reserve of 500m-1b+. Poor mid-game players need to save up meso to upgrade gear constantly, so they can't just save up.

    Suppose you need 100 coins to craft each WS, so each coin ends up being 1.5-2m. That's an easy quantity for even new players to buy and sell.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Griggs
    Offline

    Griggs Blue Snail

    4
    0
    12
    Jan 9, 2019
    Male
    6:38 PM
    Griggs
    F/P Arch Mage
    This may get convoluted and I may or may not know what I'm talking about, but hear me out.

    One consequence i can see coming of this is an increased necessity for HP washing and inflation of the price of INT equipment. Increased interest/demand in bossing > higher player standards > higher demand/price for washing equipment > greater disparity between rich and poor players. The players who have money and have the means to earn more money (ie through bossing) than the average player will be the ones setting the price standards for INT and washing equipment, and the average player who has less access to washing equipment and therefore high lvl bossing may find it harder and harder to keep up/afford a boss-ready character.

    There has been a lot of great progress in this server to make washing more accessible (availability of AP resets) and make it less necessary (monster book, new horus eye, event equipment, etc.). Overall I think this is a great system and I would love to see it or a more accessible variant of it added to the game. My questions are: is this enough to offset the outcomes above? Is bossing meant to be accessible to the average player or only those with the most time and mesos? Are there plans to include more ways to achieve HP goals for bosses like HT through non-event equips such as monster book ring and horus eye?

    I am now speaking completely for myself here but I don't think I'm alone in my opinions. I personally despise HP washing; I refuse to do it on any of my characters and I am wary of a system which could further necessitate it. It requires an above-average level of funding as soon as you get off Maple Island, it makes your only avenue for leveling PQs and leech for the majority of the game, and completely eliminates any potential joy to be had from levels 10 - 140. I don't want to turn this response into an anti-HP washing rant, but I do want to say that although I like the proposed system in theory, I am worried it may increase the necessity of HP washing, which would be bad for the health of the server.

    Of course this is all only the speculation of a very average player, so feel free to tell me I'm wrong.
     
  8. SaviorSword
    Offline

    SaviorSword Dark Stone Golem

    134
    12
    156
    Feb 9, 2020
    Male
    Aiur
    7:38 PM
    SaviorSword
    Paladin
    192
    Bonfire
    For convenience's sake, I hope that the Scrolls can still be put in the Storage to transfer from Characters within the same Account.

    Other than that, I still need more time to digest this stuff.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. jesscapades
    Offline

    jesscapades Pac Pinky

    176
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    196
    Jun 24, 2019
    Female
    8:38 PM
    jesscapades
    Shadower
    182
    Homies
    I’ve been working on a post for hours and I need to take a break. Please don’t lock this thread before I’m done :(
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 7
    • Friendly Friendly x 5
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. Cascades
    Offline

    Cascades Slime

    23
    13
    30
    Jul 2, 2020
    Male
    5:38 PM
    Cascades, Crater
    Hero
    135
    Homies
    Hey NiseNise - really appreciate this thread being made for a large system being proposed in ML. Something I'm noticing in the thread is everyone having a different definition of "success" of this system.

    Could you maybe share what the exact goals of the system are and what the success measures are?
    • e.g. "We want bossing to be a viable means of income" --> "Boss runs increase from 1.4 times per week to X per week"
    • or "We want the average price of WS and CS to go down" --> "WS/CS prices stabilize at Xm mesos or x% of blahblah"
    I think you already have them throughout the original post, but having them be clear or broken out would probably help the community more easily talk through the options, pros, and cons. It would also help gauge the system after the potential implementation and determine if iteration is needed.

    Non-goals or "out of scope" changes would also help the community from derailing too far into areas the staff doesn't want to touch with this or things that may be impossible.
     
    • Agree Agree x 8
  11. Goofball
    Offline

    Goofball Red Snail

    6
    0
    20
    Nov 2, 2019
    Male
    5:38 PM
    This is basically taking away from the grinders and giving to the bossers. Whereas, the bossers can grind but the majority of the grinders cannot boss. So the rich gets richer.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 5
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  12. s0mething
    Offline

    s0mething Capt. Latanica

    307
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    268
    May 4, 2019
    5:38 PM
    Can you please elaborate? Grinders have CWK exchange
     
  13. Mirrors
    Offline

    Mirrors Zakum Retired Staff

    1,923
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    Jul 15, 2019
    Female
    5:38 PM
    Mirrors
    WeenieHutJrs
    Grinders can also farm mesos and sell leech right, two of which are traditionally the best money making methods in the game, right? No one is taking those abilities away, and they can still do it. It's just that bossing has never been profitable and maybe become even worse in the past year. I don't really see how making bossing more profitable will hurt the farmers as they can continue to do what they've been doing as always. Maybe I'm misunderstanding so please let me know if I'm missing something here. Nowadays rarely anyone runs bossing cuz it makes money.

    Edit: speaking as player not as staff
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  14. JKNS
    Offline

    JKNS Selkie Jr.

    203
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    Sep 21, 2020
    7:38 PM
    Hero, Dark Knight, F/P Arch Mage, I/L Arch Mage, Bishop, Night Lord
    There are classes like Archers and NL who are severely limited in their ability to grind and instead must focus primarily to exclusively on bossing. Giving an avenue to these classes is huge, especially considering the current state of bossing profitability right now.
     
  15. Mirrors
    Offline

    Mirrors Zakum Retired Staff

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    5:38 PM
    Mirrors
    WeenieHutJrs
    Note: still speaking for myself and not as staff lol

    For those of you who are still chilling in the thread, do you guys have any suggestions on what drops can be good in this system?

    I was brainstorming and thinking skill books might be good, but then we have lots of people who hoard skill books, so maybe that'd be a bad idea...

    Maybe we can make Zak diamonds or HTP/Eggs worth some coins? What are y'all thoughts on that? Or are there better drops for this lol
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. -ovv
    Offline

    -ovv Horntail

    2,246
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    Feb 23, 2020
    Male
    5:38 PM
    -ovv
    Beginner
    200
    Honor
    Non-marketable dragon weapons for Horntail.
    This could incentivize and invigorate people to risk crafting more dragon weapons.
     
    • Creative Creative x 2
  17. Hiyo
    Offline

    Hiyo Headless Horseman Retired Staff

    766
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    386
    Sep 21, 2016
    Kuwait
    3:38 AM
    Hiyo
    Camper
    1
    Boss ETCs like zak diamond/scarga paws/NT boss etcs are good candidates imo, though giving them the PoT treatment where old becomes collectible/null and new is sell-able to npc is a fair way so those who hoarded don't get a huge lead (same can be done to skill books? where HT drops the same books with different IDs but older books can still be circulated/used but cannot be exchanged?)

    Another idea is common etcs from less meta maps where you need a lot like (1000) for 1 coin. Maps like Deep Ludi don't see much love though maybe it can become too farmable so I'm not sure on that one either.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  18. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Jun 10, 2017
    Male
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    5:38 PM
    Disparity
    Corsair
    200
    Pasta
    Nise already stated in the main post that bosses that have an actual item be tradable for coins will not drop coins itself. As a result, having a boss item be tradable for coins is a relative nerf compared to another boss that simply has the coin added to the drop table.

    Example:

    Pink bean drops RoT, they are tradable for coins. Because RoT are tradable for coins PB cannot drop coins.

    Horntail has coins added to its drop table (because no horntail items are exchangeable for coins).

    Net change in EV for pink bean runs doesn't really change, because RoT were already valuable, but HT gets a huge buff because it starts dropping coins (for free, in comparison to pink bean).

    So in reality, players don't actually want to be forced to trade our boss drops for coins, we would rather they simply be added to the bosses drop table.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    -ovv
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    Not necessarily, since the amount exchanged for goods can vary from boss to boss.
    Rock of Time could be valued at a much higher coin exchange rate than Horntail Egg. That hasn't been hashed out yet.

    If anything, this suggestion maintains a floor value of Rock of Time by pegging it to a wider market of Prestige Coins instead of leaving it susceptible to be determined by the market value (RoT crafters).
     
  20. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    I'm saying that the fact you have to potentially give up a boss item is a relative nerf compared to a boss that just drops a coin. If the boss just drops a coin you get a coin for free without losing anything.
     

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