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Important New System for White Scrolls (Feedback Thread)

Discussion in 'MapleLegends Announcements' started by Nise, Jul 6, 2021.

How do you feel about the Prestigious Coin system?

Poll closed Jul 14, 2021.
  1. Strongly support

    190 vote(s)
    34.4%
  2. Slightly support

    130 vote(s)
    23.6%
  3. Neutral

    90 vote(s)
    16.3%
  4. Slightly oppose

    71 vote(s)
    12.9%
  5. Strongly oppose

    71 vote(s)
    12.9%
  1. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    -ovv
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    Buff bossing please. I only made 12.5m in a month on my 6 man papulatus runs.
     
    • Informative Informative x 7
  2. Trion
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    Trion Capt. Latanica

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    Your last statement is quite contradictory but I think you knew that already. Plenty of people get into the groups they like, that doesn't guarantee you will be bossing and using this proposed system to its fullest extent.

    And it is not even about being anti-social it can be timezone differences, or scheduling differences too since people have lives outside of Maple. One of the issues with this system is tying in WHITE SCROLLS with bossing when the focus should really just be about making bossing more profitable period.

    You shouldn't cut people off from white scrolls whether they boss or not because it benefits EVERY part of play in maple. You might need white scrolls to hit harder against bosses, or maybe you need WS to upgrade that weapon so you can finally 1 shot a certain enemy.

    The Maple Anny coin system was an example of a much fairer system of getting coins because the prizes were something everyone needed BUT the ways to obtain them wasn't just through bossing, you could do event questing, JQ (albeit this could use some work) and grinding/farming. The staff correctly analyzed theres different parts to maple gameplay than just one activity.

    So I am 100% on the "give bossing more profitability" bandwagon. Just don't take an item like the White Scroll hostage as a means to do it which benefits EVERY part of play in Maple not just bossing and is something everyone can use. You can clearly have a system to make bossing give you more mesos without making a system based around White Scrolls that is exclusive to bossing.

    That isn't the issue. The issue is you can do all that grinding you want. None of it will drop prestigious coins to trade in for White Scrolls. You are still locked out of a system that gains you an item that everyone benefits from and helps gameplay not just with bossing but outside of bossing too. Like I said, before you can have a system where bossing is profitable without making it revolve around White Scrolls and cutting other people off who don't use the system to its full advantage... JUST LIKE not everyone who is a bosser wants to grind for hours or sell leech.

    It suddenly wouldn't feel very fair for bossers who hate selling leech or farming if the prestigious coin system only applied to farming and leeching now would it?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. BananaPie
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    BananaPie Selkie Jr.

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    Currently: Only viable way to get ws is mage farming / selling leech
    New proposed method: You can boss to get coins, but you can also continue mage farming / selling leech to get ws.

    What part of the new proposed method screams WS is exclusive to bossing?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    What we need is HT clears as publicly available information
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. iPippy
    Online

    iPippy Nightshadow

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    Selling HT clear service. Get your street cred at a reasonable rate today!
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  6. Trion
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    Trion Capt. Latanica

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    Bosses will DIRECTLY drop coins...none of that exists for regular mobs. Furthermore we don't have a full list yet but Nise said boss drops will also yield coins. Once again nothing similar to this mechanic will exist outside of bossing. And these coins all relate to WS and CS. You can have a system of profitability for bossing that doesnt have to revolve around WS and CS.

    Most braindead way would just be have some current new ETC drop that npcs for a certain mesos amount and you can split it among the party. The price of this drop could also be monitored by staff and constantly edited/change if they see changes in the market. No WS and CS involved and you are making all the profit you want.
     
  7. BananaPie
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    BananaPie Selkie Jr.

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    No that braindead way is horrible.

    Do you know why ws and cs is so good? Because it's highly in demand which means coins are likely to be an extremely liquid traded good whereby transactions in those particular goods leads to a net reduction in mesos circulating in the economy via tax.

    If you introduce some new etc drop you're injecting mesos into the economy thereby leading to an overall increase in money supply and potentially overall inflation.

    Further, the argument you make is every bosser has a mage and hence bossers will have access to both coins from bossing and gacha from farming. Fair, but there are bossers who do not have a mage, or were forced to make a mage because bossing currently is just not profitable (like myself).

    This opens up the route of people to just make bossing characters and focus on bossing characters and focus on generating income via bossing without having to have made a mage.

    I also guarantee you that if bossing became profitable via this avenue, it doesn't matter if you can get ws via leeching because bossers would prefer to just boss. Why do I know this? Because I actually boss. More than happy to show you my HT clear count.
     
  8. Trion
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    Trion Capt. Latanica

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    But that is the point it wasn't supposed to be some novel idea it was just a crude example of having mesos without using WS and CS. Currently you are injecting mesos into the economy if you farm for hours and grind which a ton of people are doing everyday as it is. The money supply is increasing as I type this post. The money supply will increase as the server gets older and older. This doesn't mean you have to use the WS and CS issue and tie it in with bossing.

    That can be handled a different way and with a different system. And just to rehash since you ignored it. The coins being dropped will be a boss-exclusive system.

    Nise himself even said "Note: This proposal doesn't tackle inflation. ". So the inflation argument holds no water.
     
  9. Pepper
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    Pepper Wolfspider

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    So firstly I want to say I do not fully disagree or agree with this suggestion. However, the original post gives a lot of "pro" sides and then for "cons" this is all we received:

    Potential Concerns
    1. Could be perceived as overly custom
    2. A number of high value items (WS & CS) will have their prices tied together
    3. Would mean the introduction of a new "currency" that might be confusing to players

    I would like to take this time to add some potential cons that can arise if this change is put into effect. This is mostly for the staff to review and find ways to prevent or change these or just consider in general. I am not bashing anyone's opinions or saying I dislike the suggestion proposed by staff.

    I do think additional information is needed from staff to clarify what staff specifically means when they refer to "lower levels" (is this 1-50? 1-120? 1-150?) and also clarification on the exchange methods for the coins.

    Issue #1: White Scrolls/Chaos Scrolls are not equally exchangeable for buy/sell. If you sell a scroll, you only get coins. If you want to buy a scroll, you have to provide additional items. It has not been clarified if the amount you sell a scroll for is less than the amount you buy it for. I assume this is true because this is how most of maple functions. You buy a pot for 1000, you sell it for less to the NPC.
    Why is this an issue? Well, imagine you are a new player. This is your first character and you use a gachapon and roll a white scroll. This scroll is either bound to you, or you have to sell it for coins. As a new player you need money so you sell it for coins. Lets say you sell it for 100 coins. Now you level up and want to use a scroll on some equipment later on. Now it costs 120 coins + an item. You essentially got scammed out of part of the mesos you would have received had you been able to just sell your scroll. Not only were you taxed on total coins gained by selling the scroll, you were then taxed by the amount you sold those coins for. You could have saved the white scroll and saved money in the end, regardless of that that cost was. It really depends on the rates that staff decide. Most new players won't hold onto a white scroll, and they still make a fair amount of money, but I don't think this is a fair approach for this.
    Issue #2: Min/Maxing bossing is a thing. There are always very sweaty people in every corner of Maple. I can see people being denied access to boss parties for being weak or less optimal classes more often than they were in the past. I can also see people running bosses way more often than they used to, making getting a channel for a boss (especially horntail) much more difficult. It will increase chances of smaller parties completing, more runs being completed per day, and also per week. You will end up with players who went from bossing a few times a week to multiple times a day, and can also lead to burn out. This can also become abusable depending on some bosses that can be killed with 1-3 players. Multiple accounts can get involved etc. I am not saying everyone will do this, and it could be no one will, but I think staff should be prepared for this to be the case based on past evidences from events and multi-mage users.

    Issue #3: Staff will always control the market, and that isn't necessarily fair for a free market system. At any time the staff can decide the amount is too low, or too high, and change the rates. They could do this now too if they wanted to but they usually don't. Aussie previously stated this is something they can do. My concern here is you can drastically change how much money something is worth and directly control its spikes and dips. People may farm a lot of coins and horde them, waiting for staff to cut a supply down because too many in the market, and then sell them at higher prices because rates are lower. This also means staff have control over how much white scrolls, chaos scrolls, rocks of time, etc are worth and the value of each boss. I can see people getting mad that they farmed a bunch on Tuesday and on Friday they lost money because they didn't sell before rates were adjusted.

    Issue #4: Coins can and will overtake the market and mesos will be worthless. This has happened to other games that have introduced a new form of currency. The highest most used currency will replace any other currency. The way this is currently suggested on the original post does not allow for a lot of taxation as well, which means less dump occuring. This won't happen right away of course; the market has to become saturated and adjusted to the existence of the coins first but there is a high chance that mesos just becomes means for low cost items and pots and the rest of the economy is run by coins. Staff will need to make a decision and determine if this is the route they want to go. The more you try to control it, there are chances you will upset the player base by nerfing etc.

    These are the main issues that come to my mind at this time. I might think of more later. I would rather plan for the ways this can be exploited or go wrong in this thread since the original post focuses very heavily on the positives, which are all true and I agree with. I don't want the staff to go into this with how much work this would be to implement (coding, tracking data - FOREVER by the way, etc) just to have to nerf it or remove it in the first month or two of implementing. I will continue to keep my brain thinking so that we can keep the discussion open for ways of improvement. Thanks all <3
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 11
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  10. Porkupine
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    Porkupine Timer

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    Regular mobs already drop something just as good and valuable as prestigious coins: Mesos. Nothing is stopping a mob farmer from purchasing a ws/cs with their mesos.

    Regarding your points about how bossers have mages for farming already, there is a significant portion of bossers that do not play a mage on the side for mesos. While this proposed change may benefit the purely non-bossing mob farmers the least, it tremendously benefits the bossers that aren’t interested in making a mage to make mesos. It only benefits bossers, but that’s what’s needed to move away from make-a-mage-to-fund-your-attacker-story.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Trion
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    Trion Capt. Latanica

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    Totally on board with bossers not feeling like they have to make a mage to do well in Maple especially endgame. I just don't like the coin drop only aspect only applying to bosses. And in regards to "mob farmers can just use mesos" to obtain WS and CS we still dont know what the exact exchange will be because it won't be just mesos as it has been outlined. Furthermore, in games in general, private and public servers, additional currency systems that tie in with the main currency (mesos) have not always boded well and can be exploited to varying degrees.
     
  12. Porkupine
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    Porkupine Timer

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    The prestige coin drop system really just opens up a way for bossers to attain white scrolls without farming mobs, but the coin itself is still tradable for mesos. Disregarding what the trade in process for coins to ws/cs is, both bossers and farmers have a way of attaining coins. The only difference is bossers generate while farmers purchase. If one is not interested in bossing, or cannot find the time/people to boss with, one can still attain coins/ws/cs the traditional way: Farming mobs, generating meso, purchasing prestige coins in FM, gachapon, etc.

    I'm not sure how other public servers with additional currency systems played out so I can't comment on that, but I have a similar concern of market manipulation and exploitation of leverage. Hopefully the supply rate never dwindles to a point where the wealthiest players can control the value of a prestige coin.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Trion
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    Trion Capt. Latanica

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    And what about the players who don't boss heavily or mob heavily what are there options? There are a bunch of limitations with this system that could be ironed out that right now it just feels rigid and closed off and you can have other ways to make mesos without tying it to bossing based coin system. I really want an ideal situation where bossers can make the money they deserve from the effort it takes to set these runs up while at the same time not making it revolve around a WS and CS based system and non bossers should not have to purchase the Coins that come from an NPC in FM, that is way too clunky IMO and the exchange rate isn't going to exactly be equal to someone just dumping a WS for coins or using coins from bossing to get a WS.

    I share your concerns about market exploitation but I always try to air on the side being glass half empty in situations like this so we can be prepared for any trouble spots.

    All in all, I have repeated myself several times in this topic and there was a lot of good points made and healthy discussion for sure. I hope everyone continues the topic because it is good to get as much of the community involved as possible and to hear their feedback.
     
  14. kiln
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    kiln Pink Teddy

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    Farming/leeching is already the most typical way WS/CS is obtained (Gachapon). I don't get it - if you want Gachapon to be less feast or famine, I think that discussion belongs somewhere else.

    You're arguing almost like farming/leeching players don't already get their share of WS/CS. In my opinion farming/leeching is already so good that it doesn't even need Gachapon to be worth it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Porkupine
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    Porkupine Timer

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    Make 200 fame mules, sell HTPQ service, roll, sell goldteeth/crack/sunbursts, plenty of ways.

    But in all seriousness, if you aren't bossing or farming hard, how can you expect to accumulate the funds to purchase these end game luxuries? The limitation of this system is not a flaw, it's a design choice that keeps the benefits focussed towards bossers that have historically had a harder time accumulating wealth compared to farmers.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  16. JKNS
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    JKNS Selkie Jr.

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    "The players who don't boss heavily or mob heavily." What do the people who primarily play the game to afk/gamble in FM or chat with their buddies/guildies need from this? If you're actively seeking to participate in content, whether that is through bossing or selling leech, then you have a route to earing WS/CS.
     
  17. Trion
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    Trion Capt. Latanica

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    Oh no I just mean a mix of both of them, not everyone relies heavily on one avenue. You can play "hard" but not be a big time bosser or mobber, you have a healthy mix and in between questing, side projects for mules theres a bunch of other things occupying your time. You saying the limitations is not a flaw is just your opinion and that is fine. It is a flaw in my own opinion because the object of all this is WS and CS something we all need not just bossers. And bossers can have a system where they have just as much mesos as mob farmers without having a system tied on coins for WS.
     
  18. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    If you don't want to kill mobs and you don't want to kill bosses what is a person doing that they actually need to earn WS and CS?
     
    • Agree Agree x 9
    • Useful Useful x 1
  19. Trion
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    Trion Capt. Latanica

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    That is not what I am arguing at all. In regards to Gachapon, that is PURE rng for WS/CS. Boss dropping coins that can be DIRECTLY exchanged for WS/CS is zero RNG. You can have bossers get mesos without making a system relying on them just directly getting WS/CS while everyone else who doesn't boss as heavily or prefers other things will miss out on this ZERO RNG system.

    If you can point me to a method of mobbing and getting WS at the end of it with no RNG involved please share because it doesn't exist right now. And if you say "sure just farm for hours for mesos and then buy some at FM" that is not the same thing as killing a boss for an hour and getting coins to exchange for WS/CS with zero RNG.

    Nobody said this at all. Keyword is "heavily" as in not extreme with either one. Reading comprehension.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  20. kiln
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    kiln Pink Teddy

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    Not to mention (as literally everyone else has) you can just buy WS/CS with mesos.
     

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