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Scaling pirate's "Double Shot" properly

Discussion in 'Accepted' started by Siegfried, May 21, 2017.

Buff Double Shot?

  1. Yes

    31 vote(s)
    70.5%
  2. No

    6 vote(s)
    13.6%
  3. Maybe...

    7 vote(s)
    15.9%
  1. Siegfried
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    Siegfried Master Chronos

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    6:39 AM
    We all know Gunslingers are pretty much sub-par/mediocre before 4th job, and other ranged classes easily dominate Gunslinger until 4th job. We also know that the top 3 dps in the game are Corsair, Bowmasters and Night Lords. But till then, Gunslingers suffer. For a long time.

    Take a look at Lucky Seven, which is nearly the same move as Double Shot.
    [​IMG]

    Don't forget that thieves have Keen Eyes, which increase their range +200.

    Archers have something similar, the eye of amazon which gives range +120 at max.
    They also have critical shot, which increases critical damage by 200%
    And finally their main [double] attacking move, "Double Shot" which is
    [​IMG]

    And they also have another single blow tech, Arrow Blow, which is 230% per 1 hit.

    Now finally, we have the gunslinger which is sub-par damage-wise
    [​IMG]


    So in terms of damage, Sins[dit] > Archers > Gunslinger
    150% > 130% > 110%

    In terms of range of attack, I don't know the exact values, but if someone could give me them that'd be great.
    Though, ill use a LPQ's stage 7 where you need a ranged character to hit the rats on the other side.
    Sins and Archers can hit it, but Gunslinger can not. Feel free to test it out if you think you can without jumping towards the rats.

    -- But gunslingers have recoil shot to reach it? Well, sins also have Flash Job at 3rd job plus a greater range.

    What is the point of boosting Double Shot?
    Instead of having Gunslinger class only good at 4th job, where it just spikes up from a relatively flat line, it should be a continuous exponential curve where towards the end where yourself and/or others see that you're getting better.

    Suggested scaling?

    Double Shot >> 140%
    or higher because between 1 - 70, gunslingers have absolutely no moves that influences damage output the same way Critical Shot / Critical Throw for Archers and Sins.


    [EDIT]
    If it's 80% here, and it shows 110% on the BBB site, what happened?
    New Suggestion: 80% To 110% or 125% sounds fair.


    Keep in mind that, archers have other good moves such as Arrow Bomb which substitute or give variety to an already existing main damage move.

    Sins have critical throw, and a better weapon multiplier.

    So basically, from level 10 - 70 is pretty bad from a Gunslinger's standpoint, and there's nothing much we can do about it.

    I haven't gone in detail about 70 - 120, but perhaps that's something worth getting into.

    If any of you have some things to say, please feel free to post.

    ADDITIONAL INFO:

    Sins have easily accessible throwing stars. You can get them from the FM for a low price. (illbis, steelies which are > +23 att)
    No one has gunslinger bullets. You'd be hard-pressed to find a person who actually has them.
    Which means, nearly all are stuck with level 10 bullets (+10 ATT) for the time being.

    Also, GMS changed it to 110%. It's still 80% here. That's why it shows 110% on the BBB maplestory website.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
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  2. deribou
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    deribou Skelegon

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    Pretty well known that a gunslingers 1-120 is terrible because their damage is crap

    It's a good idea, but the real question is should gunslingers be buffed since their late game is quite good.
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Siegfried
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    Siegfried Master Chronos

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    That's true, but Double Shot isn't a move you would be using in 4th job. I've seen many Gunslingers in game and on video and all of them uses the combination of recoil shot + Battleship Cannon.
     
  4. Number32
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    Number32 Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Keep in mind that double shot is a lot faster than L7 and Double shot Bow
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Siegfried
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    Siegfried Master Chronos

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    True, but is Bullet Seed better than Giga Drain?
     
    • Like Like x 3
  6. Diego
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    Diego Capt. Latanica

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    8:39 AM
    Even worse my friend, it does 2x 80% instead of 110%
    [​IMG]

    Notice, though, that the skills itself gets "buffed" at 3rd job when you get burst fire (3x190% at lvl 20) so after lvl 70 you dont use double shot anymore
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. OP
    OP
    Siegfried
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    Siegfried Master Chronos

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    Additional info added to the post. Gathered more information from other people to support suggestion.
     
  8. Diego
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    Diego Capt. Latanica

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    That's because bbb isnt at ver 0.62 but later versions that made some skill changes to balance them. Same happens with rapid fire a skill that is 150% at lvl 30 but got buffed to 170% in later versions.
     
  9. OP
    OP
    Siegfried
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    Siegfried Master Chronos

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    Yeah, understandably so. Although, it's also fair to use it as a benchmark because pirates were released in V.62. It makes sense that they would later revise it when they saw how shafted gunslingers were. I assume it's also the case for some other classes; B-Step and Buccaneers received changes to them as well that were present in the later revisions but all before big bang.

    Further, it wouldn't take much to change this percentage value to 110% would it? [insert maplelegends wz editor's response here]
     
  10. Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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    Can't you attack up to 6 mobs doing decent damage with a gun while still using somersault? :cautious:
     
  11. merky
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    merky Mr. Anchor

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    I don't see much harm in buffing an underpowered skill that helps gunslingers level a bit faster. It's not gamebreaking, methinks, since it becomes obsolete at higher levels.

    Besides, gunslingers already face issues with level-locked ammunition. A lvl 10 thief fresh out of Maple Island can use the best stars, but pirates have to wait till they reach much higher levels before they can upgrade their bullets.
     
  12. Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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    Maybe we should put level requirements on stars. :D
     
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  13. deribou
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    deribou Skelegon

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    i know a local expert in somersault kick

    PieterPieter
     
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  14. Library
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    Library Slimy

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    Slave
    I support this. Also, I think every star besides Hwabis and Furies (Lv 70) does have a level req... bloody level 10 :c (side note: C-Ilbi don't exist in Legends but they're Lv 50 req).
     
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  15. Library
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    Library Slimy

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    That depends; what year of Pokemon are we playing in. Because Skill Link can make any 2-5 hitting move always strike 5 times, and since I think Gen 6 or 5 it has expanded its compatible Pokemon pool. Mega Heracross' hidden ability is Skill Link and that's fun to watch.
     
  16. Diego
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    Diego Capt. Latanica

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    Even though this can be a reasonable option, it kinda defeats the purpose of playing a gunner (you expect to fire bullets not to whack mobs with a gun)
     
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  17. Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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    Defeat the purpose? The purpose of any weapon and attack skill is to kill mobs, and this is a very good option, especially considering it hits many mobs, AND you can't fire your gun when monsters are too close!

    People always look at the damage numbers of guns and complain, but they simply don't realize the pirates were meant as some kind of weird hybrid class.
     
  18. Library
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    Library Slimy

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    If there was more evidence about that in later jobs, I would agree with you; I personally don't get that same vibe, looking at gunslinger skills from second to fourth. A lot of it, to me, looks like mobility -> building distance -> sniping. I'm not saying I want focus on being hybrid, as it would take away the point of having a route split, but realistically, not being able to kill things (quickly...sort of? Maybe effectively is the best word here) with your main skills (gun-related ones) and having to rely on SSK just doesn't seem appealing.

    It's not so much about buffing the damage to be ridiculous imo as it is about being able to use those skills without being that much lackluster relative to other ranged dps (archers and sins, if you want to include them, mages too... I guess?). But if we want to make this more "balanced," another glaring issue is just the outright weak attack on bullets along with the level restrictions. We talked about level restrictions being implemented on stars earlier in this thread; imo, that would be great if bullets were kept the same but the attack increased for each bullet out there (though not by much).
     
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  19. merky
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    merky Mr. Anchor

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    To each his/her/their own, I suppose. As much as killing mobs is the divine purpose of attack skills, I'd like to do so in style. I try to visualise it as Gun Fu, though I acknowledge Diego's point as well. Which is why I support buffing Double Shot a little.

    At any rate, maxed Double Shot is equivalent to lv 3 Double Arrow. I guess that's a good enough reason why gunslingers deserve better.
     
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  20. Jess
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    Jess Pac Pinky

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    Jess, osooso
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    Getting through 10-70 as a gunner was rough damage wise (although I didn't realize it at the time), so I 100% support this. Nice to see a lot of new gunners around even with such a crappy attack
     

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