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The Grand Gachapon thread

Discussion in 'Accepted' started by Kimmy, Dec 8, 2015.

Gachapon changes: READ TOPIC

Poll closed Dec 15, 2015.
  1. A2

    44.3%
  2. A3

    15.8%
  3. A3B

    6.6%
  4. A4

    6.0%
  5. B (please post in topic, read B description)

    16.4%
  6. C

    4.9%
  7. Other (please post in topic, read Other description)

    6.0%
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  1. Loon
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    Loon Slime

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    A2 or B (I voted B). For B, the rates of certain scrolls need to be increased (earring int, shield w.att, shield m.att, bot dex to name a few) and there needs to be less junk and more things that people need (sky skis, level 70 ele wands, bwg, etc.). People can go through 35+ tickets and not get a single good scroll or item and have to wait another week to try again. I'm not saying it's terrible that sometimes people just have bad gach runs and get crap but it happens so often that the economy is just a disaster. Some armor/weapon scrolls being more rare than pacs/pgcs/ws just isn't right. I also think removing gacha tickets from cash shop is a bad move because people vote religiously so that they can gach and hope to make some money. Removing it and putting it only into monster drops will make NX pretty useless for people not hardcore HP washing and will probably lead to less voting overall. This would make getting money even harder than it already is for pre 4th job people and especially for people that don't own a mage/bishop (and yes this is coming from someone with blizzard).
     
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  2. Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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    This poll is way too confusing. I want to add the gach items to mob drops/bosses/pqs, but I also think the gach system should stay and needs more retweaks. What option is that? A2?

    Also that is quite an accusation you are hurling. Do you even know who voted for what?? lol
     
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  3. OP
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    Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    Added new line at OP "New Edit"
     
  4. Freddychanyo
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    Freddychanyo Slimy

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    A3 4 lyfe.
    Surprised there are so few who agree.
     
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  5. Jackii Kon
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    Jackii Kon Dark Stone Golem

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    :(
    I have pretty bad luck when gaching, even now. Despite all the PGCs and whatnot being thrown out left and right I somehow still manage to get dem pots but I'm fine with that, it's gambling after all.
    While I do think it's good to have more items on the market and make stuff more available to all players I also think that it's a little too good right now. A small nerf would be absolutely fine.
    That being said, I also like goals I can work to reach instead of just throwing NX at a machine and basically rolling the dice until I get something decent.

    So...like a mixture of A and B maybe? Or majorly A2 with minor tweaks? Something like that.
     
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  6. Yozich
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    Yozich Wolfspider

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    A2 + B c:

    Edit: What Lion wrote. And maybe a few more chaos and white scrolls. I never really see those :/
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  7. Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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    Ok, the vote is cast. As for the exact tweaks.. well..

    When the gach revamp first came out, it was said that each town gach would have things catered to the class that belonged there. Yet cape int scrolls are being given out at perion and kerning city, while cape str scrolls are given out at ellinia. Ellinia gach has also awarded melting cheese (heals 4k hp when 4th job mages won't even break 3k hp), and shield matk scrolls simply can't be found there. Those are in showa. :cautious:

    Let's see, what else... Nautilus has handed out cape ints and cape luks. Really? Pirates don't use luck. So in my opinion, the gach revamp has done a pretty poor job of keeping each of those 4 towns' gachapon lists in line with what their actual classes can use.

    All you really need to do is this: ANY scroll that adds to a class's primary or secondary stat gets thrown into that town's gachapon. Helmets, capes, tops, bottom, overall, shoes. etc in case I missed anything. Any scroll that adds a stat that class doesn't use should be removed from the gachapon.

    For ellinia, the gashapon also should include all glove matks, shield matks, purple adventurer and gaia capes.

    Every other town should have the scrolls that add WATK and pink capes. Perion and Nautilus also need the scrolls that add accuracy, and everywhere but Perion should also include scrolls for HP.

    All these towns should also have DEF scrolls. Warriors use top/bottom the most, but they still have a few overalls. Mages use the most overalls.

    Now we don't want to make those 4 towns seem too good, so thats why it should be balanced so that it's still rare to get something really uber like a pink or purple cape. And the sheer amount of variety and garbage equipment would also dilute them a bit. On that note, since gachapon needs lv 45 to use, any equipment that's like below level 30 shouldn't even be there.

    All the other gachapons can be a mix, sort of like a "grab bag" as they are now. They should have a good blend of popular items from all the other gachapons.
     
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  8. zook
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    zook Capt. Latanica

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    Reading what to vote for just gave me a headache and confused me really bad ..

    I just won't vote, unless you can tell me what the following should vote for:

    Gach needs to be changed to where we can get certain scrolls that we need like bott dex shield atk shit like that , If you want earring int you really gottaa go to sleepywood and if u want shield matk showa? idk combine the 2, thats why zipangu was so good bcuz it gave basically all the dark scrolls , No one really knows for sure where to gach for shit they need, they just go based of what people already got before .. Scrolls are so spread out its so hard to actually get what you need, and if you do it might only be 1 item ..

    Also Chaos/White scrolls , I havent seen a white scroll since I bought the 1 in FM for 130 mill .. I feel like farming for them would be best, But determining where or what monster drops it is the tough part .. If you make it Zak only or something, not everyone goes zak or can handle it on their PC .. So you gotta balance it out ..

    So I really don't know what to vote for , I feel like gach rates should be upped, or some gach's be combined so you can have a better chance at getting stuff like combine (shield matk 30/60/70 / Earring int 30%) put those together , and put bottom dex 30/70 and top str 30/70 and shield watk 30/70 together and maybe even let us know which gach so were not wasting our precious vote nx like I did testing out what gachapon gives what rewards..

    That and Whites/Chaos' scrolls should be farmable at a rare drop %, maybe not necessarily from Zakum but somewhere you think would fit as a mob drop
     
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  9. Sucre
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    Sucre Zakum

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    Your vote would be "Other" because it's a combination of A2 and B
     
  10. Yozich
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    Yozich Wolfspider

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    ~Demure~
    zookzook
     
  11. Losj
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    Losj Capt. Latanica

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    Lets begin shall we?

    I am a lv 170 player who can pretty much solo anything at this point that there is available.
    No matter what you do with this it will never be good for everyone. It will be good for some and worse for others.
    A lot of people have this illusion that the strong get stronger because of changes like this if they were implemented.
    Being able to farm items from monsters and bosses.

    I started here with nothing. No meso, no equipment, no connections like most people did.
    I was able to get meso and fund myself (Never used gacha) perfectly fine. Sure some scrolls were cheaper compared to now but meso was also a lot more valuable then what it is today.
    If you buy a pet and grind at mobs instead of doing PQ you will earn plenty of meso. I sold all the equips I found and did not need. By the time I was lv 50 I had over 50m.
    The point of this is the weak also get stronger. Don't forget everyone started from scratch. Sure some people had more luck then others with selling items but that does not mean you can not make money other then gach. I sold my 9 bwgs back then for 20~25m ea which was a fortune. (obtained via exchange quest farming Fox tails for 40 hours)

    I am of the idea it is only fair all items obtained from gach should also be obtainable via farming monsters. Being that from Snails or Chief Oblivion Guardians is up for the staff to decide.
    I personally think this could be a great opportunity to make spots that are decent as it is more valuable. No matter what you do people will not agree on where things should drop from and it is indeed a hard decision to make. I think ToT would be a good place for scrolls to be implemented. BetwixtBetwixt showed on stream that as a lv 108 Hermit she could farm the first stages of ToT with ease.
    For most players you will get your best in slot items at level 100 (equipment). Items like Shield scrolls ect. which are usually really low level could be obtained from easier mobs perhaps.
    I saw Exhume talk about it not that long ago that everyone was hyped for ToT and now that it is out and even after the spawn got buffed there is still no one there.
    This is true. I am quite often in ToT myself to farm for Pinakas and Spear stimulaters. It does not matter when I go there I will never find a soul there.
    By implementing scrolls which most players use on end game items (Not talking about chaos and white scrolls) in this area not only will it give people a reason to come back to ToT but also make it harder to over farm. Not everyone can go to ToT as of yet and there for people who really need the items and are high enough level can obtain them. I already hear you saying, Oh look its this one guy again who is high level and can go there and farm everything. I get that but what makes you think you should be able to farm these scrolls at lv 50. Again like I said earlier making meso is not that difficult if you play the game.

    I can go to Wolf Spiders and farm for Spear att 30% well other classes have no option what so ever. People are already complaining right now about scrolls that drop from mobs. For example Wolf Spiders vs Night Ghosts for claw att 30%. Clearly everyone can agree that Wolf Spiders are a lot easier to farm then Night Ghosts because of the spawn and amount of mobs in the area. I agree but then again not everything is balanced in this game. Myself and other Dark Knights are frustrated with the fact that we can only obtain Sky Ski's from gach which is also not balanced at least imo.

    This is a nice goal but it is impossible to do. No matter what you do classes who can spam away will be better at farming then classes who have low mobility and are limited by the amount of mobs they can hit at once. If you would nerf the people with ultimate attacks it would mean you have to reduce the drop rate of the monster in general which will punish everyone. This happened at Skeles before. Drop rate got reduced because a few bishops went to grind there (this was real early in the server). They made a lot of money but once attackers got strong enough to go there they could barely go even. Eventually this was resolved but it is just an example of how trying to balance drops is not going to work in this game. I think it is ok that a Mage type class has an easier way of farming items. It has been like this since the GMS days and it will be here as well because that is how the game works.

    The Poll is great. We have waited for a very long time to see things changed and go on a more even playing field.
    If you could not tell by my rant I voted for A2.

    Let me add this to the story. Many players have an illusion that we just want to make more money with scrolls if they are obtained from higher mobs. If you would be in our shoes you would realize we need these scrolls to improve our gear. Of course some will try to make bank from it but most players including myself want to farm them to improve our gear. Money is meaningless once you are high level. You already have all the equips you need. You can always buy your pots no matter what you do. All you need is scrolls to improve the items you already have.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
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  12. OP
    OP
    Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    This is false. The magic of coding can do more then you think ;)

    It would be case by default, but there are always ways.
     
  13. Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

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    Please no. If you start nerfing drop rates based on class, that's just dirty. Fact is mobs drop mesos, mobs drop scrolls, mobs drop equips. It's just how the game works.

    Some classes are better than others at things. Remember, we'll also be adding some drops to BOSSES, right? So it should even out between mages and everyone else.
     
  14. OP
    OP
    Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    It could even be more deeper, example by skill. Anyway, not saying that happens, but its an example that such things are never impossible.

    For rest I pretty much agree with the part where Losj mention how some 30% scrolls are available by mobs when other aren't, which is unfair.
     
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  15. Losj
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    Losj Capt. Latanica

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    I don't think this is necessary to begin with. I can kill bosses in 5 ~ 20 min depending what boss. I will find items from there.
    Mages can do it as well but probably take double the time if not more.

    Just as an example why I think this is not a good idea.
    It is no secret at this point that I am the guy with the Cordon.
    Back when nobody knew there were only 2 on the server. I farmed 9 of them in 3 weeks or so.
    Many bishops / Arch mages went there and came back with 0.

    I did this as a Dark Knight.

    Drop rates will be random no matter what you do. I think it is only fair some classes have it easier with things then others. We all have our strengths and weaknesses.
     
  16. Diego
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    Diego Capt. Latanica

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    Given the importance of this issue, it would be helpful to announce this tread in-game so that all players will come and read about this. Because less than 50% of the players have voted so far.
     
  17. OP
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    Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    I did a broadcast message earlier today, tomorrow morning I will do a scrolling message.
     
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  18. Boggyb
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    Boggyb Master Chronos

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    I voted other. Leave gacha as it is but make all scrolls droppable from somewhere please. So at least people arnt at the mercy of a few fmhoes.
     
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  19. atobe
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    atobe Chronos

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    I would like to see you be able to get items by other means. changing the Odds at which items come into the market would be great (white scrolls/chaos scrolls are not available to the 95%).
    If you do end up changing where things come out and what rate. I think the community would really enjoy having the transparency of knowing where and how often items come out. One of the biggest headaches of current gach is not knowing what my odds are to get something. With old gach we could go to mushroom shrine to get dark scrolls and have really detailed lists from other websites. With MSL we have such a small community to get that info would take weeks (still dont have a full guide on the new gach rates/items).

    Just be very careful about the rate at which bosses drop them (and maybe make them tradeable) so that people dont steal them during runs.
    Taking gach out completely will just further advance the "old money" of maple.

    The biggest thing we need to have is to have the new players feel like they have a chance to catch up. Which is something that was lost with the current gach revamp.
     
  20. zook
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    zook Capt. Latanica

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    When White scrolls / chaos will be farmable I be like: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡⊙ ͜ʖ ͡⊙) ( ͡◉ ͜ʖ ͡◉)

    okay i voted for Other

    but I think it's said that my oppinion is also A2 partially
     
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