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warrior balanced change thread (all)

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Magen, Jan 17, 2021.

vote if you like the suggestion

  1. DK suggestion +1

    14 vote(s)
    24.6%
  2. Paladin suggestion +1

    14 vote(s)
    24.6%
  3. Hero suggestion +1

    19 vote(s)
    33.3%
  4. Disagree with DK suggestion

    19 vote(s)
    33.3%
  5. Disagree with Paladin suggestion

    12 vote(s)
    21.1%
  6. Disagree with Hero Suggestion

    23 vote(s)
    40.4%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    2:07 AM
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    I always thought most discussions felt that this is the main problem - enrage can be overriden by attack pots such as apples.
    If enrage were to be modified to not override MW20, apples, and SE, aka party buffs and item buffs, the only thing i can see that enrage were to override is CA/ACA.
    Keep the 8 min cooldown ofc, but modify the damage to make it more balance.

    Also, modifying concentrate a CA equivalent, while looking weird shouldn't be overpowered too i think, as long as the damage is managed
     
  2. BananaPie
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    BananaPie Selkie Jr.

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    Trying to come to terms here about how you think HH is still considered a skill that paladins use in bossing but sure. This is diverging from the topic at hand so let's leave this as it is.

    I don't get this energiser vs enrage argument. Energisers I've seen can go from anywhere between 700k-1m. Who cares if it effectively replaces enrage - you won't be spamming these simply cause of the cost and the difficulty of getting them.

    These 160+ heroes you're speaking of aren't even considered 'high level'. When you reach 19x+ unless you have a thing for guardian you literally have nothing else to spend on. Even if the CD is abysmal, it's still a free increase in w.a. by way of using SP that has no other use.
     
    • Agree Agree x 8
  3. OP
    OP
    Magen
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    Magen Selkie Jr.

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    what if HH would do same damage as Blast in bosses? would you use it then?
    As a Hero player, I just dont like the idea that potions can replace a 4th skill/override it.
    Its not like it buffing me 6 weapon attack on top of other pot, like Rage+Enrage / whatever, its just override it and I find it annoying.
    As I mentioned the problems with this skill few messages ago, in my opinion there are problems with this skill that should be fix.

    The heros that guide me through were Im were 19x-200, and they were right when they say, Enrage is useless dont bother to get it.
    When I say high levels parties i spoke on HT runs/ tokyo runs and ETC which fits to level 160+ .

    BTW: Guardian was and still nice skill and its doing great when you wear 1h sword+ shield. I find it like really good example of a good 4th skill VS a skilll that can be override by a potion.
    So yea i maxed Guardian before i even touch Enrage as it on it's current state -> almost worthless.

    My point is, Enrage need that rework to get Heros back in line, and this could be great opportunity to fix it's single target damage with some tweaks from 3rd job skills.
    Like wise making panic sword a skill that can be used every 5 seconds (for example) without turning the combo off.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  4. BananaPie
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    BananaPie Selkie Jr.

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    That's on you. One's a potion that costs around a million, one's free SP towards the end game because there's nothing better. Enrage could do with some work, yes. Is it useless though? no.

    I don't get what's so annoying about having a skill that gives you FREE w.a. You got all these so called 'pro' heroes telling you they pump axe mastery because they don't want the FREE w.a. from enrage like what?

    It's FREE w.a. man just take it. It's not worthless when it's literally giving you FREE w.a. every few minutes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Eighty
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    Eighty Windraider

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    11:52 PM
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    These potions you are talking about are not easy to come by nor are they cheap. Currently potions-wise, only onyx apples, gelts and anniversary cakes override enrage. They help boost runs when things go south. If you are referring to energizers, those do not not override enrage. And yes, many of us here who've replied have done NT content for more than a year. Energizer is not easy to come by. Trust us.

    There is pretty much a consensus that heroes need some changes but you are also saying enrage is completely useless which is NOT true.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. -ovv
    Online

    -ovv Horntail

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    Back in line with what? Heroes don't need a buff on the tier list.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. OP
    OP
    Magen
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    Magen Selkie Jr.

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    I would agree or just be sattled if it was really so called free weapon attack
    If for example it would buff the hero +6 weapon attack and you could use another potion, so yea. i would sattled for that.
    but lets say in PB run when everyone is on apple, this skill is not in use anymore.
    and my point is, I dont see a good reason why not make it +6 weapon attack without overriding a potion/pill.
    at the privous people said that its hard to code or something because its an active skill and not passive, so that why i suggested to change it from weapon attack to +% dmg as ACA does, so it wont be override by a potion.
    as you said Enrage need some work, what would you suggest to do with it?
    I think everyone who voted for Enrage suggestion which is 17 atm and myself are disagree with you.
    specially when we talk about single target bosses.

    From my exprience energizer is not so rare drop from eruwaters, and as it done same job as Enrage I wish it never exist.
    and yea, Enrage is not a complete waste but for my opinion, Heros need some changes, and the changes can come from Enrage buff.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  8. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    17 people out of 268 people who viewed this thread.
    So assuming a non-vote is a vote against, you're at 17 for, 251 against.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  9. OP
    OP
    Magen
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    Magen Selkie Jr.

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    Assuming a non-vote is a supporter?, you're at 268 against you.
    you cant assume that like wise i cant assume this ^
    there are people who disagree the post and its probably including you.
    so its 17 against 6.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  10. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    The problem is you are using your votes casted for as indication for support while not leaving an option for disagreement for that specific choice.
    If your justification is that a vote casted for is a vote in support, then it's only logical to assume that a non-vote is either a vote in indifference or in disagreement.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  11. BananaPie
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    BananaPie Selkie Jr.

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    7:07 PM
    Wait I'm planning to bring my hero through NT to be my rage mule cause I wanna save on ciders (and get another char to get coins on). I only do 2man verga's so there's plenty of space in my party for that free 20wa.
    /s

    But honestly I did think about it and I'm kinda like why not? Only thing stopping me is I'm too lazy to do the preq. But to say it won't ever be a thing it's an understatement f3
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. dubzilla
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    dubzilla Mano

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    Personally I think the better buff for warriors would be to make their mastery skills duo effective for both weapons, respectively. It would be really cool to see, and I think it would make many players happy and satisfied with the current status of the other skills. (besides hh, cuz that shit is a bummer). Just make sure to code all the elemental charges to work the same way, too. :p
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  13. Eighty
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    Eighty Windraider

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    I believe Nise meant that people will start making rage mules if they buff rage.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. OP
    OP
    Magen
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    Magen Selkie Jr.

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    When I wrote the post I thought 6 options may be to many options so I thought who ever disagree on specific topic would just hit the disagree option or comment for it like you do.
    Also for those who disagree I would like to read their opinion and debate with them
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  15. BananaPie
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    BananaPie Selkie Jr.

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    It's not much of a debate when a) your advice comes from axe mastery heroes and b) you're stuck on the view that enrage is useless because there exist a certain (expensive) pot out there that gives roughly the same as enrage.

    My view is that one costs money and the other is free so enrage isn't worthless. What's there to debate since you don't seem to understand that at the end levels you have nothing better to put sp in so you might as well put something into enrage and use it?

    Edit:
    At this point I don't think there's a conclusion to what you're asking for. You're asking for an enrage buff to help heroes do more single target. Thinking of the big picture how much of a buff would u be satisfied by. Is a 6% increase satisfactory to you? This wont magically make you more attractive over a NL in HT for example even if your single target is boosted by a tiny margin. You'd still be doing less dmg than a NL/sair/mm/bm single target so why would I pick you? If you start doing more single target than a pally then that entire class will go down the drain and effectively become a scar/nt mule because why bring a pally to ele neutral bosses if heroes do a) more single target and b) better cleave? And as pointed out by other posters, the ability to make enrage turn your attacks to single target isn't supported in v62.

    Heroes have excellent albeit brain dead cleave. If your single target was boosted so it matched say a NL there'd be no room for NL's. Fact is the bosses are designed in such a way that the current meta is such that single target prevails over cleave for the majority of bosses. Buff your single target and keep that impressive cleave? Everyone might as well be a hero at this point. I can deal pog single target and pog cleave, why would I want to play any other class?

    You're like enrage buff this enrage buff that more single target dmg pls so we can be picked for single target bosses but fact is no matter what comes out of an enrage buff, single target classes will do more dmg than you. So you can get buffed sure but in the end it's not like you will magically be picked over an NL (relationships aside) so the core issue isn't fixed.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 2
  16. boldaslove
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    boldaslove Dark Stone Golem

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    oo ok that was super confusing bc i didnt think we were talking about buffing rage. my b NiseNise
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 3
  17. OP
    OP
    Magen
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    Magen Selkie Jr.

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    I did agree with you over the post that saying it's complete worthless is wrong to say.
    But as we speak I still think Enrage should get buff.
    I never meant to make heros do more damage than a NL or a BM and etc, but on the other hand I believe a funded hero could do decent damage on single attack too.
    The reason I suggested to buff HH as well as Enrage in the same thread is for that specific reason .
    If Enrage will make hero hit better single att than pally on non elemental weakness bosses or even make the DPM similar therefore paladin could make a use of their skill -HH.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  18. BananaPie
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    BananaPie Selkie Jr.

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    I don't think you get my point. Even if enrage got a buff and you somehow got, say, 5% more single target dmg. You're doing decent single target dmg, yes, but you're doing less dmg than a NL. If I'm faced with the choice of choosing a stranger NL or stranger hero, the outcome is the same as if there was no buff.

    I think you're trying to envision a world where people want heroes for single target bosses while also wanting heroes for their cleave potential in areas such as CwKPQ. No matter what buff happens, by virtue of you being a cleave class, you will do less than a single target class. What are we defining here as decent single target dmg. 70% of an NL's dmg? 65%? It's still going to be less regardless.

    Heroes are in a solid position as they are. The problem is with the end game and how these bosses have been designed. Solely looking at the bosses out there heroes are subpar, yes, but they have a much easier time getting to 200 than the ranged attacker counterparts. It's fairly easy to turn your hero into an echo mule as long as you don't mind the dullness of 7F. That's a key benefit of cleave that the ranged attackers don't get.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  19. Jaewonnie
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    Jaewonnie Capt. Latanica

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    I think this is a key point. I think the bigger issue is the lack of end-game cleave bosses. Warriors are only less relevant since most bosses favour single target dmg. So instead of buffing single target dmg of warriors (which messes up class identity in my opinion) why not change the boss meta?

    Ways we could do this is introduce a "hard-mode" Zak or even buff the hp of boss mob summons.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  20. OP
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    Magen
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    Magen Selkie Jr.

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    So you basically saying hero is not worth having in high level parties.
    And I better just use it as echo mule, do you really believe this is right? This is how game should work(???)
    You are getting into my point, I think this game designed that any class will have a place in parties, which is not what happening now days in high level parties.
    therefore why I think warriors and heros specific should be buffed.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
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