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warrior balanced change thread (all)

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Magen, Jan 17, 2021.

vote if you like the suggestion

  1. DK suggestion +1

    14 vote(s)
    24.6%
  2. Paladin suggestion +1

    14 vote(s)
    24.6%
  3. Hero suggestion +1

    19 vote(s)
    33.3%
  4. Disagree with DK suggestion

    19 vote(s)
    33.3%
  5. Disagree with Paladin suggestion

    12 vote(s)
    21.1%
  6. Disagree with Hero Suggestion

    23 vote(s)
    40.4%
Multiple votes are allowed.
Thread Status:
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  1. Magen
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    Magen Selkie Jr.

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    hey guys,
    I'm playing at this server since last dec/nov 2019,
    and during that time I been thinkning on some suggestions.
    In this suggestion thread I'll write about my thoughts about warrior class and what the changes in my opinion will be fair to have, and also make things a little more up to date and related to this server.
    before I start, full disclosure right now im playing hero above lv 160~, also played a NL 160~ and a bishop 150~.

    DK:
    Berserk :

    Ok, this skill been talked alot and changed abit from the orginal GMS, but in my opinion, in this server this skill is not in the right state as it should be.
    players in this server washing alot to be able to do some bosses and if we compare it to original GMS there no such thing as washing.
    this skill developed to balanced DK hp compare to other warrior classes, back then DK passed any other warrior classes hp with HB.
    In my opinion I think where everybody is washing their hp, DKS should be able to do it too.
    suggestion solution:
    make DK zerk mode to their base hp and not 55% as it now.
    for example :
    lets say a DK has 22k base hp, when ever he get less than his base hp (22k) it gets on berserk mode.
    why:
    this solution will help DK to take part in some bosses they just can't today (such as nameless and etc), and also it will help server get more voters as well as I think its fair (everybody is washing why they wont be able to do so too?)
    Paladin:
    Heaven's Hammer:

    So, that is like every Paladin stab wound.
    This skill nerfed this year and limited to hit 50k at bosses.
    I do agree having a skill that is too OP in bosses like it was before make people do Paladin mules and this is the really bad to the server health and to the community as well.
    But, there are Paladin that are not mules(HAHA), and they got too much nerfed.
    suggestion solution:
    make HH hit same power as they do with Blast (580%),
    this way Paladin mules wont be able to hit OP dmg in bosses so people wont do it and main players as Paladin will have what to offer as an attacker to parties.
    Hero:
    Enrage:

    I already opened a thread on Enrage:
    https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/make-enrage-to-be-worth-skill.35910/
    the main thoughts from this thread:
    1.Heros need help with attack buffing in higher levels specially in single attack to be more attractive in single attack bosses but they are do not need any help with cleaving damage.
    2.Enrage has become not relevant to this versions because there are already pots that way better than this skill (such as 25att for 30mins gained from eruwater).
    3.Even Lv. 200 heros do not unlock this skill because its simply not worth the SPs
    4.This skill is unlocked under a quest, Zakum and HT -> Having this skill worth having will do good to parties because they will have another skill to sell in market.
    suggestions from this thread to change Enrage:
    *Enrage will cause hero hit single attack with better attack rate while it active with CD as it now. *
    option 1:
    during Enrage is active hero will be able to hit panic sword more often(make ac+aca wont turn off after using panic sword for the same 4/8mins cooldown).
    option 2:
    during Enrage is active hero will hit single attack with Brandish skill but will buff ac+aca+Enrage as extra damage increase same method as ACA does (buff it to 300% total ish) with same 4/8mins cooldown.
    why:
    hero is pure DPS character, it has nothing to offer to parties beside DPS (as cider is available and same power as Rage).


    Please comment your thoughts and not only vote for it.
    also, please comment only if you ever play these classes before and you do have gameplay experience with it, if you havent play these classes please metion it.
    thank you very much for reading,
    Magen.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 9
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Eighty
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    Eighty Windraider

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    So if a DrK has 30k base HP, does he always have zerk up? ._.
    DrKs can most definitely zerk at almost ALL bosses including nameless, toad and PB (to some degree whether standing left or right of pb and depending on whether host allows it or not).
    BGA and Anego(using crusher) are the impossible ones?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  3. MinuteFish
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    MinuteFish Red Snail

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    I think Berserk is fine as is there should always be risk to the class in order for it to match other warriors since it offers more in support compared to the others.

    Enrage buff and heavens hammer buff Idk if these are the right buffs but I agree they should be buffed. But something that makes you not just spam brandish forever brainlessly is always a good thing. If enrage made panic and coma worth using I'd give that two thumbs up
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  4. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Also depending on your total weapon defense, you could even tank Big Bang while Zerking on the right side. The max damage with the right gear will be 15,718 dmg (this is 18,492 with 15% achiles factored in) based on the stats I post below:

    [​IMG]

    But yea, ideally left side for DKs is better since you don't have to worry about BB.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Haaaaayyyyy
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    Haaaaayyyyy Red Snail

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    4:47 PM
    Instead of a HH buff, I have another suggestion that might make paladins useful in high level bossing. Threaten should reduce weapon defense based off of a percentage that's based off of your character's level. This will prevent low level muling but keep the class viable in parties. The exact amount, I haven't dived too deep into.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  6. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    A lot of people would say that Pallies ARE useful in high level bossing however. Their weakness is with cleave bosses, but with the HT meta, cleave isn't really heavily favored anyway due to fears of mass seduce/dispel from the arms.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. jc123
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    jc123 Brown Teddy

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    Seconded.(Thanks for showing new players how to zerk, Eighty! :yay:)
    I think a huge common misconception is that DKs can't zerk certain bosses because it does more than the 55% hp pool(16.5k) but in reality you can just pot up before said attack hits you since they generally have wind up animations.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. RegalStar
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    RegalStar Nightshadow

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    The main obstacle to DrKs zerking in PB is not big bang, but PB randomly walking around and crashing into the DK for 20k+ damage. It's basically impossible to see coming too, what with all those damage numbers covering it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  9. OP
    OP
    Magen
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    Magen Selkie Jr.

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    I cant see why not.
    In my hero i spent about 1.3m NX to gain 30k by lvl 160 (with gear int), i cant see why DKs wont be able to play with 30k if they vote that much.
    DKs probably will have to spend more nx from a hero class so lets say 1.5m nx for 30k hp, that means the player vote for something like 215 days only for AP resets, so if someone if willing todo so why not?.
    also, I believe this is healthy to the server since more people vote for long condition will increase the server voters generally.

    damage reflection by low lvl character vs high lvl boss is already included in the original game but probably 900% dmg is too much and it allow people do HH mules that easily hit 200k lines.
    altought I do agree with you, damage reflection to HH skill will do good to the server and will decrease HH mules but it has to be lower than 900%.
    :)
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  10. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    dont focus on the PB moving around, just follow the numbers moving. you can zerk from a distance, u dont need to stand right next to it to zerk. if you see him walk around, just press full pot.
    sometimes the Bean is covered. its easier to track him via DMG lines
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. stomachache
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    stomachache Horny Mushroom

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    Not sure about Pallies and DKs but I've recently decided to max out Enrage at 180 due to me being a 2H hero which has no need for Guardian and too stinky to buy my own MW20 right now.

    Honestly the skill isn't that bad at all. I mean, a 6att buff for free with a 4 minute cooldown (8minutes cooldown - 4minutes uptime) and recharging your combo counter literally only takes like a few seconds. I don't get why people bitch about it. It's fucking 6att for free.

    But I guess it's kinda tricky to work on buffing hero's single target dpm? I mean it would be unfair for the other warrior classes if heroes just outshine them both in cleave and single target dpm by just pressing one button.

    If theres any buffs for heroes, I'd say maybe give Rage a few more extra wep att because this buff is so replaceable with ciders.
     
    • Like Like x 7
    • Disagree Disagree x 4
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. OP
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    Magen
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    Magen Selkie Jr.

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    When you ask to buff rage it's going to harm enrage and make it even worst than it now.

    Do you really feel like well spending 30 4th SPs to a skill that buff you 1 weapon attack more than energizer pot?
    Because when you get the pass to Tokyo towns this pot is too easy to get and make hero skills to be less efficient (again).

    Enrage should have been comparative advantage of weapon attack to hero's
    In this version -rage is 20att (not 16 like the original version) and cider is available and stackable(3) so it automatically make Enrage less efficient (it's +6 att from npc pot and not +10).

    That's why in my opinion enrage should self buff hero and not adding attack because it always be compered to pot.

    Also I don't see why hero's won't be able to take part in single attack bossing.
    That's why I suggested to change Paladin's HH skill so they could do decent attack with HH and also single attack, DK could Hb and cleave and hero's could cleave and single once in a while (4/8 CD) because they simply have nothing to offer now days to high LV parties
     
  13. stomachache
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    stomachache Horny Mushroom

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    I mean, yeah I think they should slightly buff the wep att that enrage provides if they're actually going to buff rage.

    As of currently I really don't have any other skills to spend on SP on due to my own arch mage already having MW20 and most of the people I play with already have it. While it may be true that the energizer drinks are relatively easy for you to obtain. It's not necessary for yourself to use it since you already have Rage? (This is assuming you as a hero are using energizer yourself because you mentioned it makes hero skills to be less efficient again?)

    Again, it'll be interesting to see if enrage actually gets a rework and I'll be excited for it too. But in my opinion, I just feel that the current one isn't as bad as how people are saying it is. I'll probably bitch about it a little if it's still dispel-able but then again, I wouldn't be that stupid to use a 4(8) minute cooldown skill if I know theres a dispel coming.

    Personally I think Heroes are in a good spot in terms of both single target and cleave dpm, but as a class that excels in cleaving and also providing a 20att party buff (which is, unfortunately easily replaceable with ciders), asking for better single target damage maybe sounds a little greedy for me, you shouldn't really have the best of both worlds. But then again it's just my two cents.

    Lastly, it might be true that Heroes don't have anything to offer to "high lv parties" but if your talking about Horntail, it's really just the current meta not favoring cleaves as Nise mentioned but other than HT, heroes are still quite okay I guess?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. Sepio61
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    Sepio61 Chronos

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    DrKs already have a risk of not having Power Guard like their warrior counterparts thus making them less tanky than Heroes and Paladins. I don’t see why DrKs shouldn’t be able to stay at max HP like every other class in the game.
     
  15. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Power guard only reduces damage taken from touch damage iirc.

    Instead, DKs get 40% resistance against elemental based attacks, on top of the achiles skill thats shared with every other warrior. They're not tanky in the same regard (not touch dmg tanky), but they're still tanky in other ways (usually ranged damage).
     
  16. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    this is also why DKs get hit 5k lightning from samurai instead of 8-9k ^^
    same with black crow
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Do you see the meta ever changing to be more accepting of cleave heavy comps? I feel like we've reached a point in the server where late game cleave is just not that relevant. It helps out a bit in earlier bossing like Zakum where cleaves are useful for mob control and can situationally be useful in HT runs when the bishops die, but for the most parts single-target damage prevails.

    Personally, I don't want a buff to Heroes and I agree that their current class rankings are fine as is, but until recently, the Hero class has been neglected on any reworks while every other class has seen small tweaks here and there. It's also widely known that the Hero class play style is extremely stale, which I think can be fixed with a couple of tweaks, first starting with Enrage.

    The latest rework for Panic damage and Combo Orb % chance was a small step forward, and I think it could be a preview of some possible Hero tweaks to come. In the past, Panic was basically made irrelevant in the 4th job because it was always more optimal to just charge up Combo to max orbs and brandish all day. With the recent buffs to Panic, getting to max combo charges and using Panic is now only slightly behind on DPM tests. If Enrage had a secondary utility of guaranteeing +2 combo orbs each hit, it could increase Hero's single-target damage. While Enrage is active, Heroes could be doing Max Combo Orbs + Panic instead of just mindlessly brandishing for eternity. Instead of reworking Enrage to be just a +damage buff, I think it should play in conjunction with the Crusader class skills (which I think were done really well even though they are pretty underwhelming during 3rd job play).
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Creative Creative x 1
  18. TWW
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    TWW Pink Teddy

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    But wouldn't that actually make this class fun to play and not just brain-dead brandish spamming? me want spam and go afk while dealing big unga damage!!! warmush
    Honestly though It'd be fun to incorporate coma and panic in real situations instead of just casually testing the damage on snails (which I enjoy doing).
    And I know it might not be possible, but the idea that when enrage is activated it
    switches from multitarget attacking to single attacking is so damn cool.
    OnionRay
    Buffing rage like others have said would be a cool idea too, but not TOO much. Maybe like a 22-23 attack bonus rather than 20 (Being referred to as a cider mule hurts my pride OnionYes) It shouldn't be 25 attack (or should it?) though because energizers and those event pills are already rare as it is.
    And maybe axes should finally be buffed because swords are overpriced and look lame
    OnionListen
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  19. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    If I spent 10 SP and get 6att free, yeah i wouldn't complain. But I have to spent 30 SP for a mere 6att buff, AND its replacable by eating energizer, AND has a 4 minute cooldown.
    Bruh, i have alot to bitch about. 30 SP isnt free.
    Tho if u take out the cooldown, and have it remain indispellable, i'll have less to complain about

    Edit: didn't know about energizer's rare drop when I first wrote this, sorry about that. would like to take back my words for now, tho it might be too late
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. OP
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    Magen
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    Magen Selkie Jr.

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    Yes, 30SP isnt free.
    even if you make this skill free of CD after HT run (if you been taken) you lose your comparative advantage out of this skill at the 2nd run, and yea if you can eat energizer and its last for 30mins (!)
    why would you spend you skills points on Enrage anyway? also we talking about endgame skill so if you ever reach to the point to get that sps it will be fully wasted? doesnt sounds fair.

    my point
    in this thread is- change warriors to be more related to this server -
    Heros: rage/cider is 20att, energ pot 25att - makes Enrage fully wasted and left heros waaay behind in endgame levels. also when other classes been buffed for the right reasons they should be buffed too. Make Enrage change the gamestyle of heros will cause nothing but good to the server.
    thats a fact this skill is useless by the prices it go on shops vs where you can obtain it from (zakum/HT??)
    DKs: while everybody is washing, why are they the only class who couldnt do so? while make DK wash is healthy to the server and the community - more voters fully 30k bar will be about 1.5m nx so it remains hard to get.
    Paladin: while HH was too OP people used to just do HH mules, but i dont see why manually block it to 50k? let them use HH same power as Blast, so mules couldnt be OP -> people wont use HH mules.

    someone asked me what if Enrage will cause heros do more damage on single attack compare to paladin's blast?
    well I think if you calculate it, even if Heros could do more dmg via brandish or panic on single target while Enrage is activated(4/8), they could never do more totally dmg because of their HH + bosses warknesses to fire and etc.
     
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