Question about MP Washing (for Chief Bandit)

Hello.

I'm a LVL 101 CB and my plan with MP washing is to "catch-up" on HP washing since I started pretty late. I want to hit around 10K hp w/o HB by LVL 150-ish because I want to be able to fight bosses like Toad or Anego and some of the heavier hitting ones at Neo Tokyo.

Currently, I have 2.7k base HP (nothing on), and around 2350 total MP.

LVLS 67 - 92 : I started pumping INT until I hit 140 BASE INT.
LVLS 93 - 95 : I wasn't thinking and put 15 points into DEX, for some reason.
LVLS 96 - 97 : I put all 10 AP into MP. I gain 24 MP per AP ->> MP. So 120 bonus MP per level + 14 bonus MP per level up = 134 bonus MP / LVL. I suppose the formula for this is 10 + (0.1 * BASE INT).
LVLS 98 - 101: I have 20 AP unspent.

Questions about MP washing in my case:

Since I get 134 bonus MP / LVL, how many times can I wash? Am I gated by the amount of times I can wash from the AP I've spent? For example, I tried to take out of MP when I was like lvl 70, but I couldn't for some reason. To clarify : Since I only put in FIVE AP into MP, that means I can only reset 5 from MP?

Does that mean I have 134 bonus MP, but I can only take out 60 MP per lvl (thieves lose 12 MP per AP reset), and therefore unable to reset the extra 74 MP? Or is this not the case?

2nd Question :

If the case is that I'm NOT gated by AP points spent into MP (to be resetted out of MP), and instead am gated by how much bonus mana that I've generated, then how much AP could I possibly put into STR/DEX/LUK per level? Is the maximum 5? With 134 bonus MP per level, I can reset 11 times per LVL, but the maximum you can put into PRIMARY stats is gated to 5?

And last:

Is the MP resetting method MP -->HP and then MP --> LUK ? Does the order in which stats I reset into matter? With 11 washes, I was thinking MP --> 6 x HP then MP --> 5 x LUK etc...

Or maybe I'm wrong and I should just remake my character with INT equips....

Anyways thanks for reading my post. Any advice is appreciated!

 

Following.

I too am interested in mp washing methods for shads.

FWIW I started hp washing late too.

Level 120 - 130 - pumped 50 AP into HP to yield ~1000k hp.
at 130, I AP reset luk into INT to get base 140int.
130-156 i levelup with around 160int.
Have been saving the AP. and so far still have around 35 AP stuck in HP.

 

I thought Shads dont need to wash because of Meso Guard...

 

10k +hp on a shad, how sweaty are you

 

I don’t. I pray and insyallah my shifter bails me out

 

to start this off lol 10k base isn't really necessary as a shadower like idk man i bad 4 int and i've never been like damn, wish i washed but moving onnnnnn

You basically just wana see how much hp you need and assuming you have all your shit washed out already you just do the math on how much more hp you need, like if you have like 3k hp rn ok so you want 10k so we need 7k more, you add 18-22 i wana say per level up so say 50 levels thats like 1k hp, and lets say you got 140 int so thats like 58 washes in 14 levels which will give you another 1k (the average of the 16-20) so lets say you get 1k from T10 ring, so you need 4k more which at 16 hp per wash thats 250 washes and since if you got 140 int that'll be 1 wash per mp point you put into mp so if you do that for 50 levels you'll have 10k. Anyways idk who you so idc about doing math so this is a hella rough estimate, and im sure you can do this in a bit less washes, especially if you have int gear which you should. For MP washing you just put that mp straight into mp and take it out and put it into luck or whatever until you got tons of MP in there and you can either use raw ap once you got enough MP to wash that shit out or you can put leave one point into HP/MP and just move MP-> HP. The way it works is if you have one point in either HP or MP then you can just infinitely move from MP -> HP until you have no more excess MP and when you're done with that you just take that one point out of MP and put it into luck and you are done. but idk man washing is optional or something so im sure you can figure it out, but yea 10k by 150 is a metric fuckton lmao you can't even toad til 175 or NT til like 167? so yea and HT you really dont need that much HT unless you have less than half of a brain, so ye. just make sure to not do something like using an ap reset to put points into MP cuz that does litearlly nothing so yea GLHF, i love this overly complicated not complicated mechanic from a 2003 mushroom game.

 

^^Listen to this guy. Second best shadower on Legends.

 

How about me? I’m like #80-ish on the ranking

 

I don't think you should remake your character, but it's gonna be a long road waiting on the NX vote cash to wash to 10k HP by lvl 150 if you haven't started the washing yet and don't have NX saved. I'm actually not 100% sure that HP goal is feasible (I'm just eyeballing, it may be), so do the math yourself and make sure.

For a thief, every 12 extra MP you level with (1 extra MP = 10 int) allows you to wash a single time and gain 16 HP (assuming you stale wash - see below for details). So for example, if you leveled with 240 total int each level, you could wash twice per level. Assuming you understand the basics of washing here's some infos -

- Even if you're pumping base int be sure to level with as much int gears as you can as well. You're gonna need it.

- Using fresh AP (AP obtained from leveling up) is overrated imo. On average you only gain 2 more HP per wash (for a thief, 16-20 HP) than you would by doing a stale wash (AP reset from MP to HP). It's a very insignificant amount. MP washing is much more potent, and you will need to do this with all of your AP points each level if you really want to reach that HP goal.

- The more base int you have, the more effective MP washing is. You said you have ~140 int, normally I'd say that's a good amount but you're starting so late so I'm not sure. After you have your desired base int, the process of MP washing is you pump your fresh AP into MP, then you use AP resets to move points from MP to your stats until you match the number of points you originally put into MP. Then, with all the excess MP leftover after getting your stats right, you continue to use AP resets to move excess MP points into HP. This allows you to wash much more each level than standard HP washing, but keep in mind that it will cost you waaaaaay more NX vote cash as well. And random note, you need to keep one excess AP point in HP at all times in order to move points straight from MP to HP.

- Be sure to use the washing calculators on discord to stay on track. Type $washes and $bloodwashes in a bot channel to check your numbers (be sure to calculate using BASE MP not total MP). Bloodwash is the number of AP points you have in HP or MP that you're missing from your stats, and assuming you're taking the MP wash route, the bloodwash calculator should tell you you have one excess AP point in HP/MP when you are all matched up (because of the last point of the last paragraph).

All of this being said, though I personally wish I had washed to over 10k HP (my shad has 7.7k HP) I wouldn't call it necessary. If you're looking to toad, the odds are extremely high that someone on your run will already need HB anyways. And with just 7k HP, you can do 3/4 Neo Tokyo bosses and the vast, vast majority of ML content. With 10k HP + meso guard I think the single bossing option you can't do without HB is BGA-BGB-TheBoss.

 

I'm actually more interested in seeing what the optimal HP threshold is to reduce pot waste while still being mindful of meso burn from MG and 1/1.

I heard that 1/1 on shad with MG is a direct hit to your meso based on your current hp. In theory, a 30k hp shad will spend 30k mesos for each 1/1 they get hit with, is that correct? Ideally, you shouldn't be potting to full every time (in HT), so things like sushi or ginseng root might be the better alternative.

 

It was just from a guide I was reading. Forgot which guide it was but he recommended a Shadower wash to 15k HP.

 

For what it's worth several of my shadower friends are unwashed and have no issues bossing or doing horntail! They're just a little bit squishier.

 

Wash to about 12.5~13.5k and just make sure that you have someone with HB in party, 15k is a bit much for Shadowers because of Meso Guard

 

HP washing for shad is more of a quality of life thing.

 

I think that is a more reasonable goal. Ill try 13k thanks

 

Yeah, roughly 13k should do

 

in what world does a shad need 13k hp wtf is happening LOL

 

Don't want our shadower to die do we now.

 

Honestly even washing a range attacker like NL, sair, or archer to 15k is already like "elite" status. Because shads have double the HP with meso guard there are very (very) few shadowers washed over 10k because it's just unnecessary. Though I know a couple people are in the process of washing 30k HP shads lol.

The single bossing scenario that you'd need to wash a shadower to over ~9.5k for (assuming no HB) is BGA-BGB-TheBoss, which is a pretty niche endgame bossing option primarily for range attackers. I'm not saying you shouldn't wash to 13k if you want to, but it'll be a very long investment saving that much NX, and there's only 1 potential bossing option that you'd be going that far for.

 

After reading the whole thread. And look at my Chief Bandit at lvl 82 right now, shiiieeeeeettttttt. I got almost 9k of HP, wasted nx.