Let's talk about washing too

Ok another daily suggestion

Item: Mastercard
Whats does it do: Give you 2000 Hp
Requirement: LVL 200 only. Unique and one of the kind
Cost: 999 millions and 400k NX
Where to get it: NX shop
Item Quote: LVLing to 200 without HP wash, Priceless. For everything else, there is Mastercard.

Pro:
Does not affect the current community or hp wash mechanic.
Fixed characters that cant hp wash at lvl 200.
Act as Meso Sink.
Only affect lvl 200 characters
Status quo maintained.

 

I looked at it again. I think the idea with a boss drop that is class specific and adds a reset of free MP is an awesome idea. I'm all for this, very good idea!

 

You know,i find this line insanely IRONIC. people WASH to get to HORNTAIL, how do you expect them to DO horntail if they still need to wash..

Another aspect none talked about is the market. as i and many know,you dont give the smallest shit about the market. but alot of players DO. when you'll add these "ideas" or "concepts" of yours into play, automatically there is no use to "int equips". people might still use them to progress faster but their prices will drop (DIRT CHEAP), as well as INT scrolls and everything related to INT for washing. people worked for ages to get their hands on these gears..whether they bought the gear or scrolled it,whether if they invested to sell or just want to keep the "resell value" for when they're done using it..it will be all lost. I know that billions on billions of mesos are invested on it,mine aswell. I hate to say it..but its too late Kimmy. you should've addressed it when it was time for it..like..2 years ago maybe? when people complained back then but none gave a shit?

I don't know why you always try to "change" stuff based on other servers,when Royals got back up you tried making a pull that suggests to "remove the waiting time from ships",now that "Croosade" is popular you're trying to minimize the complains about washing cuz they have this snackbar thing going on (?)..I don't think this suggestion is "do-able" since it fucks over tons of players that already have washed.

what I think would be a great idea is that guy's suggestion,about a year ago. He suggested to lower the AP reset prices in the cash shop and got "slaughtered" by the OG members of the community for only suggesting it. this solution don't "harm" old players in any way but will definitely minimize the complains about washing.

 

Before anything else, I'd like to repeat that this excess MP solution still should only add HP up to a limited amount, e.g. making it possible for casual NLs to HT at 155. People who buy godly or "near godly" int gears likely have HP goals that FAR exceed this amount, making it so that you still need these int gears and base int to really hit the goals they want. So what about those that just use int gear for getting to 5.6k by lvl 155, well I would address that now.
Aite earlier, I mentioned that we should add a meso cost to each cycle of receiving this excess MP from an activity. This is one of the reasons I would say so besides creating a meso sink and making this method of gaining MP "harder". So let's ballpark some figures. Once again all these calculations are just for a NL washing just for an estimate.

20 int bathrobe - 250m, 15 int green bandana 100m, 9 int mask 75m, 12 int earrings (30tma) 300m, 150m for 9 int WGs, 16 int cape 80m, 45m for 3 int shoes, 8 int shield 325m, 10 int wand 35m. (Prices are just rough estimates)

At 50 you would replace the bandana with a zak helm, so I'd say you stop wearing the bandana at level 50.

Total cost for gears = 1.36b

Above is the figures I used for this calculation, but for the excess mp gained from these gears up to 155. You would be paying around 11.38m per mp. If we were to give out MP in sets of 12 for NLs, we could set the cost at slightly more than what it would cost using gears, say 15m.

So, why would people even pay the money for this MP when they could just buy int gears and have it be more cost effective since they can keep/resell/use the gears for other purposes.

This brings me back to the aim of this thread in the first place, which was to discuss a 1-2k hp worth of MP that could be provided to those that casually played without thinking/knowing about HP washing. When they're 80 or 90, there is NO MP that they have to wash out in the first place, at this point of time int gears wouldn't even help them out enough. So int gear prices probably won't plummet and we even get a much needed meso sink.

Edit: I put a fair bit of thought into this, so if you have any comments or arguments against this (logical ones) please lmk, also this in itself is just a suggestion too.

 

i've read it. I referred to that because its the ONLY specific example you gave.

INT Items will be affected,none will invest in them and their price WILL drop and that due the fact that you gave an alot cheaper alternative,people were forced to get INT and that's why the gear costs billions. now that you gave a alternative..none will spend this much mesos on something they can get eventually for free.

I am fully aware that royals been there since 2013,but if I recall right they were offline and in maintenance for almost a year,and then they come back, suddenly, this poll pops up. either way,what I was trying to say is there is a REASON why your server is top 2 on GTOP. the players that play here LIKE IT HERE. that why they keep coming back and voting. you only hear the complains, because people who live in peace with the current features of the server don't complain so from your point of view,there are only complains. that's all you see,and I GET IT (but please start getting it aswell), most of the people that complain over washing,etc are new players or (for the most part) are coming from other servers (because new players adjust often because they don't know anything else.) and its not guaranteed that EVEN if you addressed their issues they will still continue playing.
As for the players that "leveled without washing" (and i'm not talking about toad), they act small-minded. washing is greatly discussed across the server and the chances of them "not knowing what it is" are..ridiculously small. that is obviously only my opinion about it.


To the actually issue,I think that touching the "base int" thing will ruin the market,as mentioned previously. SO what I can suggest,for the people that got "stuck" is; having insanely hard quests that involve massive grindings and can't be abused with "service providers", the level required for the quests will be 165,170,175,180 and each quest will reward with 0.5-2k hp or mp. this won't harm anyone but still will offer a solution for "stuck" high level players.

 

Not entirely correct.

Mages still need INT gears.

It is just forcing other class to have 2 SETS of Gear for playing. INT and their class stat gear.

Maplelegend , Mapleroyal etc are just like the different countries we live in. Each have their own laws and policy. The players in Maplelegend are just like citizens. When they get to fustrated with the rules and system, they leave the countries, in this case they join/move to other server.

Do the countries changes their policy now and then? Yes they do. (America changes their policy ever now and then). They changes to meet the demand of their citizen. If they stay stagnant and refuse to grow, they will be out paced by the rest of the world.

There will always be repercussion made no matter what happens. The BIG QUESTION is that is it for the greater GOOD?

 

the discussion is only about non-mage int gear..like..level 8 wands/etc

 

You are still using INT scroll to scroll is not it?

It is actually the price of INT scroll that is constantly fluctuate, due to other non-mage class scrolling INT for HP washing.

It is basically depriving the Mages of the INT scroll due to every single class need INT.

 

Would an adjustment to MP washing solve any of these problems? Possibly make a cheaper AP reset that only allows you to add into MP? Whether this would give you level-up AP values I'm not sure, but if there is a high level player who has never added base int or washed, can still try to obtain int gears (preserving the market) and MP wash a ton to slowly get them up to level with everyone else (they can try adding base int too I guess?).

This idea still has flaws though, since I suppose it makes standard washing cheaper and isn't entirely fair to those who washed already, but I wanted to bring it up anyway since I don't see people mentioning MP washing that often.

 

The main problem I see with washing is that a new player who wants to play a low-HP class is SOL because of how many mesos you have to spend and how much planning you need to put into a new character to wash. They first need a character (likely a mage) to be able to save mesos and fund their desired character. Then after months of gameplay they can finally play their favourite class (keep in mind most people play casually). This alone actually kept me away from Legends for over a year because I wanted to play a Bowmaster, however did not have the funds to wash it or leech it. The first character is a chore if you don't even want to play it. I just want to play my favourite class!

I like the idea of encouraging exploration and questing instead of putting even more focus on bossing. The entire point of washing is to boss, so I think it would add a nice gameplay balance to force future bossing characters to explore never-visted corners of the maple world. For this reason I think monster book is a great idea. The monster book also has a natural hard limit on completion which would remove the problem of 30,000 HP characters running rampant. The max MP possible to gain from the monster book should be set quite low as well. Completion alone should not be even close to enough to be able to survive the coveted boss runs. Washing would and should still be necessary, however it would no longer be necessary to dump all AP into INT and leech or spend 700m on INT equips to be able to play. Instead of starting INT-levelling at level 10, it wouldn't be necessary until level 80 or 90 for example, allowing the player to enjoy their character as normal.

Have you considered any potential compensation for those who have spent millions on INT gears should the price of them fall drastically due to the solution?

What is the downside of a v62-friendly version of medals which award 100-200 HP?

 

While I do expect the int gear prices to fluctuate a little bit, I don't believe it will be as drastic as you stated.
What I am understanding from Kimberly 's post is that she is looking for ways to benefit people who have washed and those who did not, meaning having int gears will still be useful for washing. Sure, the degree of how frequent these drops are and how accessible it is will further determine the value of int gears, but I don't think she will make them to the point where having such gears is worthless.

Again, I don't think her point is to create a system that will screw over old players who have already invested in int gears. Rather, she is looking for alternatives to still give some sort of opportunities to players who have never heard about HP washing.

 

Medals are not possible in v62 however rings can be used as an alternative and it is being used.

The system shouldn’t eradicate INT gears nor does the value of said gears would fall, thus the need for compensation is not needed. You cannot compensate gear made from a free market where the scroll’s cost would vary depending on the server’s state (summer 2017 had super cheap scrolls vs the scroll prices now are 2-3 times what they were in summer).

Not all bosses require washing, like zakum, and if this system is used on bosses it would be like a gradual process that helps the character naturally, zakum > HT and so on.

Monsterbook would be harder to balance than bosses. Lets say theres 400 cards, and each card gives 1 mp, each class benefits from this differently. Warriors would benefit a lot vs pirates who benefit the least.

 

If this really is such a "game-breaking" topic, it is necessary to succinctly articulate what the problems are. Doing so might reveal that such problems are not really problems. Most of this discussion, and past discussions have revolved around people wanting easier/earlier access to this luxury. I stress the word luxury because it is an optional comfort/early-access that is expensive in both game resources and real-life time.

One argument is that it is necessary to wash some classes so they can HT at level 155. Again, this is not necessary. You are asking to participate in content at an earlier-than-intended level and claiming that you are absolutely supposed to be able to do this content at that level. This is a luxury, not a necessity.

Another argument is that it is necessary to wash for some classes to be able to ever do some bosses like Castellan Toad. This is a more open point for discussion imo, but I do believe that it is balanced when you consider the differences between Castellan Toad and The Boss (refer to that thread).

As for padding your HP to be able to receive more hits, this is blatantly a luxury and I shouldn't have to explain this further.

A huge part of this discussion that not enough people are talking about is the amount of time and game resources needed to achieve this luxury. One of the benefits to NOT washing is that you will not have stunted damage output due to added base INT (assuming comparison to somebody washing through base INT). This means that you will contribute to bossing better than the INT-noodles, albeit at a higher minimum level. This higher minimum level is also NOT a serious problem. The reason it's not a serious problem is because the amount of preparation time and resources needed to prepare for washing can be far greater than the time needed to just level up more unwashed to access content at a normal level.

I see this specific problem more as a completionist itch, a regret of what you could have done. I'm not sure if this is a serious problem currently, as future bosses may change this.

First of all, this is flatly not true. You can wash sufficiently with just using INT from equips. Also, as soon as you realize that washing is a luxury, you understand that this is not a problem at all. The amount of time needed to invest in INT equips for washing can be ridiculous, and rightly viewed as absurd to many people. But even that investment is not necessary for some washing. As for adding base INT, you could do this instead of using INT equips. Both methods are expensive time sinks and should not be thought of as instantaneous/easy/etc. especially adding base INT, because doing so also lowers your damage output, which is a trade-off.

Not true, unless you are 200.

This is true, however it is simply an unfulfilled completionist itch that is currently not necessary for game content pending future bosses. Thus, this being a problem is suspect.

I know this is something that the vast majority of players want (access to this luxury). My caveat to this is to still require a comparable time sink to obtain this alternative to those who have already committed their own time to washing. This would be fair imo.

Again, require the alternative method to require a similar time sink and it becomes balanced imo. To wrap up my point, this discussion needs some succinctly articulated problems if there is going to be any request for discussion on answers. Otherwise this thread is a jumbled mess of incoherent babble.

Exactly, I completely agree.

Disclaimer: I'm already a year into making my 12k base HP NL.

 

create a meso sink where you can buy mp f3

 

Having more HP is a luxury, which is true.

However when this luxury become a staple or requirement, it create discomfort and social polarity.
A clear example is DK. If they do not HP wash, they lose out to the other DK that HP wash. (Buying INT scrolled gear is not a meso sink, it just make the seller richer!)
Are the casual DK players gonna say fine, i would just forgo zerking in my entire DK life?

Another hidden problem is in the long run, the active player base will remain stagnant and slowly decline when the old players quit the game.

There is not much incentive for new players to stay around in Legend since
a) they had to HP wash if not they lose out on the long run.
b) they had to pay incredible amount of mesos for Int gear.
c) Most importantly, they cant play the class they want since they had no meso which forced them to play a cleric first.
d) They had to add more base Int and strict daily routine of voting for NX to reset stats in the future. It become a regimental thing to do.

Sure there will always be new players very now and then but can Legend retain them?
There are other servers that had already do away with HP wash.

So what do Legend has a edge over the other new servers in the next few years?
1. "Nostalgic" 0.62 with HP washing?
2. No meso sink? where everyone can be a Billionaire.
3. Leech legend. One stop lvling 150 for your characters with all the bishop spamming HS and Genesis while you AFK.

The future of maplelegend is foreshadowing if issue like this are not addressed. It is like cancer. If you do not treat it early, there is a lot of consequences.

 

You seem like you don't have any idea on what you're talking about. Obviously INT scrolls will be in use but ONLY by mages,the fact that INT was used by ALL classes made int scroll cost like they do. When none will need them anymore (except for mages OBVIOUSLY),they'll cost like normal STR/LUK scrolls,and people that invested MILLIONS of their mesos on these scrolls WHILE they were expensive will get f*cked.
The fact that other "non-mage" classes use these scrolls has nothing (or barely nothing) to do with the "fluctuation" of the price,its more a STEP towards this outcome..when an item is popular (like int scrolls) they tend to be in demand for a period and less in demand for another period, that's why the prices change. same thing is with Onyx Apples,White Scrolls,Chaos Scrolls etc. for example Onyx Apples:
Apples provide insanely high attack buff>many people want this buff>the "demand" for apple is created>the market value "fluctuate" based on demand. so when INT scrolls fluctuate in price,they do because in a certain period of time more people want to wash their characters (and prices go up) and in other period of time, less people want to wash their characters (prices go down). I don't see a point in your statements/arguments,you either don't know what the discussion is about either stating the obvious..

As for it being "depriving"..that's the way it is. ALL the players that played legends so far had to deal with it,since the very very beginning of the server. its not THAT depriving,it has its benefits and its part of the game. why the fact that DEX is required for all classes except for mage is not "depriving" you? is it because its relatively cheap in contrast with INT? or maybe the next complain of you guys will be "remove dex as secondary stat! the fact that every class needs dex is very depriving!!!"? that's the game,stop asking for shortcuts. i totally agree with Luscious , HP washing is something that goes along with this server and making this server unique, therefore, all the "new players" that want shortcuts should be ignored.
the only thing that MAYBE should be taken care of is the high levels..(170ish+).

 

Int scrolls and gear will still be useful, jesus does no one read what kimmy said?

The current system WILL NOT CHANGE, only provide an alternate route to the int problem.. This means you can still get extra mp with int for more hp, damage or pot reduction.

The int gear probably will be a bit cheaper, but won’t take a nosedive. Good thing for mages that currently have extremely expensive gear. This might equal them out a bit.

 

This is basically a discussion of old players vs new players. Old players will be screwed in the way that they made a lot of effort to hp wash, whereas for people just joining the server it will become easier. ML sure has some pitfalls, and you can say everybody is aware of that, at the very early stages already of playing ML, early enough to decide to play ML or another HP wash free, nerf HS, nerfed leech or whatever server. Changing something with the way hp washing works, will have a big impact to the playerbase. Just like nerfing hs, ults or leech. If something with the int requirement gets changed, then people who have spent billions in int equips will be screwed, it will be very unfair towards them. Fact is that ML has been this way about hp washing since the start. If anything should have been changed, then it should have been done at its beginning, not now when the server has been up for 3 years already.