HP Washing Necessary Nowadays?

The later you start the harder you have to commit to reach the same goal. You can definitely still do it though, but you'll need a lot more INT.

 

Agreed. And a big part of this is that doing HT is not just about an HP threshhold; it's also about the social problem of finding a group. You've got to make a case for yourself as capable of doing it, and without this experience, you can't make that case. People aren't exactly clamoring for 15x unwashed ranged characters in their HT groups. (speaking of which, J>)

This part of the issue isn't ML's fault, but it is part of how the issue shakes out in real life.

 

I thought about this during my break, but I can't really blame ML or any other private server for it. Necky set a bad example...they formed that which became the nostalgia that private servers emulate. Deviating from that, even when it seems clearly logical to do so like with washing, goes against the mission of these servers and may well alienate their core audience.

 

been playing for ~3 years and i've seen 8 out of 10 people quit the game at 120 bc no hp wash

also the 'hp washing optional' tag on gtop is very misleading lol

 

I agree. They should remove that tag.

 

Not sure how this is misleading, when you can in fact survive the content (aside toad and vergamot) without washing (using no washes as a baseline). For vergamot, you can survive 1st and 2nd body, but you have to be flawless on 3rd body or just hang out in the corner while your party kills the 3rd body. It’s just a personal choice, when players want to wash to 7k, 10k, or even 18k clean to improve their QoL.

With the current state of equips you can get:
100 Hp from event glasses
100 hp from event ring
1000 Hp from monster book ring
300 Hp from blacklist cape
300 HP from MoN
150 hp on average with 3 pet equips?
And oh a DK friend for a whopping 1.6x HP

Total of 3,120 HP with HB

This is all without sacrificing stats from your primary equipments. If you need more HP, you can always scroll a face equip for an additional 100+ hp or buy sword earrings for extra 30 hp.

If you’re goal is to HT, then yes, you can survive HT’s maximum magic attack (9.5-9.7k?) as a range as long as you have HB. That brings up 2 points. First, you have to make sure your DK friend constantly HBs you. Second, you’ll have to be more wary of dispels. A good party will usually have timers, so you’ll get a heads up of when HT will cast dispel.

Yes a non-washed player will have a slightly more difficult time compared to someone who washed, because you can’t tank 2 hits and have to pot every hit. Majority of the player base can only tank 2 hits anyways, even when hp washed, not 3(correct me if I’m wrong). However, that’s the sacrifice you have to make. Unless you decide to wash, so you can stand there and tank an additional hit.

EDIT: forgot to include ellin ring (100 hp)

 

The hp washing optional tag is misleading for the unwashed players who expect to be able to boss as efficiently as the washed players.

Its also misleading since you can't survive toad or vergamot, but for the most part it is true if you are looking to be able to survive a boss.

 

If an unwashed player expects to boss as efficiently as a washed player, imo, I think that's just a bad assumption made on their part, not the tag itself.

Vergamot is definitely survivable, but does require an additional layer of player skill since attacks can be dodged by ducking (maybe not for sairs since they're using a boat).

 

If a new player starts with mage, it is mostly wash free and MP washing is also after 3rd job where the player has a decent knowledge of the game environment in the game. They can contiune to play the game no problem at all, and sell leech at the later levels. Nothing much with the roadmap here.

Now comes the problem. A new players starts with a non-mage character and they play their way to level50 where people start talking about getting a zhelm and how good it is for washing. They first time hear this "hp washing" concept and start to read up on it while playing. Probably they will fully grasp of the concept when they hit level 70s, and realise their character is suboptimal (or unboss-able in a practical way). At this point, how many players will still go on playing with their suboptimal characters.

The hardcore ones will read some guides and follow advise to restart with a mage as a first character and the stuffs. The non hardcore ones will probably feel disappointed then play less and less before just quiting eventually because the end goal of bossing is just not within their practical reach.

I can make a guess that abandoned pre-lv100 character have much more breakdown of non-mage class than mage class.

And come on, answering those that say bossing is not a must do in this game. I really believe most of the people play this server with the goal to fight the boss some where down the line. Not play maple because they want to hang out in fm and talk to people, the making friends part is just a nice addition to the grind to bossing eventually.

Also, the server also need to be more accepting to suboptimal character in bossing. Idk how, but somehow.

 

Please elaborate

 

This is spot on LOL. I'm nearing 90 and just figured out how much i f'ed up by not washing.

 

If you're not going to be bossing I wouldn't HP wash, but if you are going to be bossing a lot then I would recommend HP washing.

Would still be enjoyable either way, just you do you

 

This is A LOT of fun tbh, but so risky if you need books/boss item and you die in the bosses

 

hp washing is optional.

u can do any boss without hp washing with dk class buff.

makes game fun and challenging getting 1 shot and dying is part of the maple experience.

not washing saves you painful time of having int as your main stat.

i recommend everyone to not wash. Gameplay will be much less of a hold down button for x hours.

this message is written by a 30k hp warrior.

 

that's the thing. new players come in here and don't know what hp washing is and learn it at a certain level after putting time and effort into their first character. time that they can never get back because they didn't wash. sure, you can don't hp wash but per say if someone makes a corsair or a night lord as their first character and gets to 120, they'd feel down.

not everyone has the time to farm and collect event coins, farm cards till tier 10 or have the funds to buy MoN and capes.
it might be optional but no one wants unwashed night lords, corsairs or bowmasters in their party.

 

So, washing is optional. We all know what it means. But what are the reasons I've seen so far, for keeping it as it is, optional (read: recommended):

- Ye olde players who already invested time, mesos, votecash into int gears/washing.
- Part of the game as it was in GMS.

Additional reasons
- Extends endgame by making people invest more time and effort into their characters, effectively locking in loyal players.
- ???

Reasons to change this are:
- unfriendly to newcomers
- unmotivating and unfun gameplay (leveling with base int/expensive int gear)
- timegated behind votecash & events for resets

Frequently, people suggest to (completely) remove HP washing, which is probably too drastic of a change. Other suggestions include equips with HP/def (see the Quest ring post, although I still think just def/mdef is too lackluster to make any meaningful impact), or easier time to get votecash/resets.
The downside with increasing votecash or lowering reset cost is that its still required to wash extensively and still keeps the cycle of unfun gameplay (or leeching) until you're at a sufficient level to wash it out and git gud.

Equips (like the Monsterbook ring) are a good suggestion for alleviating the need for HP washing. It lowered the need by 1000 HP, which essentially means around 50 washes for a ranged character (iirc). This is 1 month of voting. But more importantly, 50 levels of leveling with int (gear) sufficient for 1 wash worth of MP (16?, thus 160 INT?!).

HP washing can be entirely optional but could be like a minmax strategy for the most dedicated if there were just small changes, like: improving the HP/MP gains on level up (+ HP/MP recalculations for everyone), just allowing people to gain 10 more HP on levelup would result in 2k more HP at lvl200. Other suggestions would include a level-gated HP boost gear (like the T10 monsterbook ring/proposed quest ring), so the benefits are only for those who truly intend to use more HP to not be locked out of content (say, 4th job/lvl120 or later)

These suggestions (and any others) still provide incentive to those who wash. As:
"Currently, for HP washing to actually be 100% optional, we are missing about 2K HP. This is because a level 200 unwashed thief/archer has nearly 7k hp, and toad requires about 9k before hyperbody." - Akash, What it means for HP Washing to be optional on MapleLegends
2k HP would bridge the gap, and for those more dedicated (like, wanting to do bosses entirely without HB/ wanting to be able to make a mistake at PB when it comes out), they can wash to 11,5k HP (PB with HB), 15k HP (toad without HB) or 18.4k+ HP (PB without HB).

As it stands now, HP washing is highly recommended to not be locked out of endgame content with your characters or to be forced to remake your character and use INT (gear) to levelup and provide HP washing opportunity. Thus, making it effectively a way to gatekeep engame content from those not informed or not belonging to the most dedicated group of players. Which is a shame, because when people play a game, they expect to be able to do all content reasonably at some point.

 

I think the original argument was "HP washing optional tag is misleading." In a literal sense, HP washing is truly optional. I agree that it is challenging to obtain all those HP equips; however, you can't expect to be handed everything on a silver platter. Yes, it's unfortunate that a player leveled to lvl 120 without the knowledge of HP washing, but it's not the end of the world. We have a great community who's always willing to help out new players if they have any questions and guide them to where they want to be. If they truly wanted to continue to play their unwashed character and possibly HT down the road, they can still do so. If they feel like they do not have enough HP, they can still farm the items or simply start mp washing from lvl 120 (depending on their HP goal). I've known a few players who did the latter, myself included (this was purely for luxury, not necessity).

I think it's safe to assume that a new player will have limited funds and no mage. Therefore, I would argue that its much cheaper and time efficient to farm a Tier 8+ ring, buy a MoN (30m) and cape(this one you have to farm for) compared to saving enough mesos to buy leech from level 65-120 (400m+?) for your IntLord, IntSair, or IntMaster. We all know one would lose their sanity trying to grind it out with a high Int char.

I personally don't mind inviting an unwashed player to my runs. Washed or non-washed shouldn't be the determining factor on whether a player gets invited or not (some HT hosts who do that and its stupid). I'd rather take a competent non washed player who pays attention throughout the run than a HP washed player who dozes off and dies more frequently.

Not sure how you would get locked out of end game content (except for Toad, which not a lot of people do because HT is "god"), when it's shown that you can indeed join with adequate HP gear and HB. Are you ignoring all other HP gears when making this statement?

 

This is not only refering to HP washing but just in general. Because boss loots are split, it is natural that teams wont want someone who only deals a tiny fraction of overall damage in their team. Other than for specislised buffs. Won't talk too much on this, because this is just what it is.

It is optional, but is it really practical? At least comfortable enough for a new players to be chill with it. Like telling them at level 100 that they only can barely boss at almost 200 even with all the hp gears and still need to pot at every hit, while a washed character can take 2 hits at lv170. Most people will just go wtf and says fk this shit.

All in all. The "optional" is really not a lie, because nothing is really wrong here. It is just not that friendly to the completely new players that's all.

 

A lot of old players managed to kill HT consistently with a bare minimum of HP washing, all without any of the newer gears that make washing optional. Many of them didn't even start washing until later in their careers, and you were considered a monster washer to be able to kill HT without HB on a ranged character. I've in fact gawked at such crazy amounts of HP around the end of 2017, and 10k hp was enough to have you and your guildmates discuss how godly that was.

If someone tells you that 'you have to wash to xxx amount' then call them a clown and move on. The biggest gate to the elite HT squads is having money already, as an unfunded 6k hp NL and an unfunded 12k hp NL are both equally not invited to elite HT squads because they both don't offer enough to the party. For the more chill 8-12man HT runs they're both welcome but it does come with the caveat that the 6k hp NL needs to know what they're doing a bit more than the 12k hp NL.

It's the ever-increasing standards people measure themselves against that's the bigger issue, and that's what ultimately makes people end up resenting their characters. It's frustrating to die on lower HP characters, nowadays you are sort of forced to reflect on the fact that you could have done more to improve HP, but the old players didn't think like that. Instead they thought about how they'd need to double-pot in order to stay above a certain margin, or how they needed to level-up and maybe borrow some int gear for that level up. Remaking was a huge process back then, you had significantly less NX, just 5k per day for all of your accounts, and hoarding was pretty rare with gachapon there to waste all of your votes.

You don't have to wash ultra hard, a few months of NX will get you plenty far towards accomplishing any big goals. You don't have to wash an insane amount, but doing some realistic washing on a first character, even at level 70+(~40-80 base int, maybe ~40+ int in gear), will still get you far in the game if you want to pursue bosses like HT and NT.

 

I think it was addressed in a different thread, but the idea of bloodwashing came from people pumping their normal AP stat into HP without the intent of immediately removing it for the sole purpose of being able to boss at an earlier level. They would then wash out the extra stat, either through extra MP or through HP again, at a higher level when they've cleared the minimum threshold to survive.

This is a strategy, but it is so far written out of current 'meta' play due to the existence of available (and free) washing methods, that people dismiss it completely.

I'll say it again - HP washing is 100% optional. Most people are just not willing to sacrifice certain aspects of the game (their minmaxed damage) in order to obtain it.