Information Summer 2020 Balance Changes [Explained]

Lol what the fuck I don't even

Blind isn't an active skill that you use; it's a buff that passively gives all (ranged?) attacks a chance to blind, and I'm pretty sure the blind doesn't reduce accuracy as a stat either; it just flat out gives them up to 30% chance to fumble, though I've heard accounts saying that it only applied to touch damage which from my experience with it in 7F grinding doesn't seem to be the case.

 

Glad to see your decision on holy shield get reverted. How much did community feedback weigh on staff’s decision to revert the change?

If it was significant, may I suggest polling next time before causing another uproar? IMO, I think the recent poll which Kimmy made in regards to increasing NPC price of certain drops (although votes were pretty split down the middle) was well received by the community. I personally would like to see more of those going forward. But I do understand there are certain decisions best left to the staff.

 

Nise can you please respond to some of these well thought out Paladin posts? Maybe you have a bigger response planned and if you do I apologize but lots of people made great points.

 

I'm not sure where the numbers are from but why is the slope of CL > CL'? from 140 to 160? Mostly a repost btw.
Assumptions: average DPM given 1200 INT and 1500 TMA

Stripping out the effects of INT and TMA we get the same %buff as above.


But is there a reason for all three skills to be buffed unequally? The graph misstates that i/l gains more DPS in absolute terms but in reality it's bishop. AR'-AR at 200 should be more than CL'-CL.

edited to correct last sentence xd

 

So is MapleLegends trying to be GMS or is MapleLegends trying to establish itself as a unique private server...?
Some changes are given with the reason that it'll make the server more GMS-like, yet past buffs/nerfs to classes have proven otherwise.

While I appreciate the Team's efforts for transparency, I believe things can be done better like what everyone's sentiments are.
The changes are too hard and fast on the community.

Also not sure why a major maintenance was planned on a Monday when the team have other real-life commitments instead of over a weekend...

 

I'm honestly not sure where to stand on the si affecting mages issue. I dont claim to view it from the side of mages, but it is also a decent nerf to the bucc class. We've lost 3 more si targets (though only really bish in bossing), which would further our 'replaceablility' in bosses. As it is now, si will affect mm, sair, Dk, and 2h variants of pal and hero (who are torn on using ST instead due to lack of si availability). It wont affect thieves, mages, BMs, and 1h warriors, and actually be a nuisance to some of those.

If the intent was to hurt both mages and general si viability (to hurt the mules presumably), this accomplished that... mostly. Many squads can form groups that dont have any need for the buff, while before at least the bishop could make use in any squad. The less the squad needs si specific, the more likely they might be to just bring a mule for the tl direct. And si muling didnt quite hurt mains as much as youd think. They at least brought a general sense of 'security' to runners that would choose their classes/builds knowing that they COULD access this buff when they need it, so there would be more mm and claymore warriors for us to help. The worse/more niche si becomes, the less likely the classes we buccs like to run with will be built/used, which will no doubt reflect back to bucc perception.

If the intent is to put mages in check, was an attempt at changing how the speed tiers scale considered already? A smaller boost to bish attacks, for example, could be achieved by making the "+4 speed" they previously got from si be halved to not completely overshadow the speed gained from their faster arch mage counterparts.

Of course, if the reason for the change was to make this more "gms like", and that it shouldnt affect these classes because we're taking game design/balance advice from nEcKsOn, I'd like to see more discussion on how having si removed from mages entirely is a better decision than changing how it interacts with these classes.

Tl;dr mages losing si hurts bucc mains too, whether or not this was the intention. #FeelsNerfMan

 

be assured that the chosen date is probably the most convenient and the point where the patch is actually ready. also weekend commitments exist too. some work weekends, some spend time with family, some want to enjoy their time off. just saying because this always comes up during maple withdrawal maintenances lol.

anyways, my dumb thoughts about pallies:

• HH is still nutty for grinding.

• the suggestion of 'make HH damage scale with str/w.att/range' will inevitably raise HH mules from the dead. it's also a very janky solution that muddles the original concept of the skill. plus it would make training a good bit harder for up and coming pallies (being able to achieve 50m+ eph the moment you max HH is seriously underrated. pally's grinding ability is unrivaled by anyone except maybe shad). you could say "make it scale with str/att/range but only on bosses!" but that rubs me as even more jank/convoluted.

• pally's 2nd job skill Threaten has a ton of potential to be a highly useful debuff. i'm not a pally so i don't know the intricacies, but from what i've heard the main problem this skill faces is its range. could we tweak the range/effectiveness/duration/other properties of this skill to make it a debuff that provides utility on par with other classes' key buff skills (HB, SI, SE, HS)? if so then pallies would basically be a shoo-in for any boss, finally bringing some party utility of their own to the table.

also would be cool if marksman's blind could do something like this too! debuffs are almost completely underutilized in this game due to most of them being abysmally programmed/balanced.

 

HH is nutty for grinding at two specific locations. One being the most popular grinding location in the game meaning it's extremely populated. It's not really a particularly enjoyable grind, nor is it an enjoyable place to grind. The other place HH is effective being NT, is even less enjoyable. If suddenly HH is a grinding only skill and no longer viable for bossing it's not worth 30 SP, mabye 10 at most if it had the same cooldown. There are so many other good skills for both bossing and grinding (stance, achilies, gaurdian, mw20) that wasting 30 points on it when it only works well at two locations is a joke.

Currently threaten's main issue is that it's extremely limited / doesn't scale. It's a static -20 att, -100 defense. On 3k+ defense and 1.7k+ attack bosses. For it to actually be remotely useful, they would need to change it to a % base. The listed version for bbb.hidden-street.net is -20% att, def, and acc (acc only being reduced for 8 seconds while the others are reduced by 80). Honestly, just do what GMS did but remove the accuracy debuff (and mabye fix blind). That would at least help some classes, not that defense does all that much to most classes.

 

Too high.

Lolol Sku, HH is not that nutty for training anymore. It caps off when you are strong enough with blast and your mob skill at 7F, and if you have a strong partner. In terms of 5-6 training yes it will carry you early game, but even then you're not a mages apex training partner anymore, duo mage is way better for mages to gain exp. Anyways, I'm not saying hammer training isn't a strong paladin benefit, but I hate when people go around acting like it is what it used to be, because it's not, and will only help you train much better than anyone else from what, 135-155? This doesn't mean revert it back to a 10 second hammer because that was broken tbh. The ability to garner 50m exp is not THAT easy with hammer training, you have to have a really good partner at 5-6 or be decently funded and high level at 7f to actually reap the full benefits. I'm not sure if I've ever cleared more than 55-60m exp at 7f with buffs/a great training partner at lvl 177, so hammer definitely levels out later. My solo exp is prob like 30-35m lmao.

Buffing threaten is also not a fix to the way paladins have been nuked this patch, and doesn't address the issues which are brought up in various posts in this thread.

 

MapleLegends is trying to be more GMS-like but add features deliberately where we see value (instead of through bugs like SI). These may seem mutually exclusive at times, as many of you have pointed out, but they don't have to be!

We acknowledge that this patch has been painful for all the least played classes (namely Marksman, Paladin, and Buccaneer), where all 3 are impacted by their playstyle in HT needing a change and losing overall value (MM reverting an overbuff, Paladin losing HH in bossing, and Bucc losing mages are SI targets). At the same time, we understand that because these have historically been underrepresented classes, balancing them is harder (unlike say a hero, NL, or BM that we know most things there are to know about them). We are always thinking ahead and have many changes thought out even beyond this patch, but the changes you see in this thread are the ones what we felt comfortable releasing. This is an ongoing effort to balance the classes, and we are listening to all of you posting on the forums no matter how meme-y the comments. We'll continue to keep an eye out.

One thing I will say though is we are aware of many of the imperfections in our balancing since we have spaces dedicated solely for ongoing conversations surrounding balancing; what we always seek more of is innovative solutions to the problems. If you have any of those, please don't be shy about posting them. No matter how many toxic funny reacts your post gets, we will consider all suggestions

Also just another shout out to the Dev Team for always dealing with the Balance Team's arduous requests. They are the real MVPs that you never hear enough about.

 

Wondering why staff has responded to all MM, SI, HS requests/posts directly but not any of the paladin novels? Can y'all just shut us down already so we can stop posting and move on with our flavorless 1 button bossing now? Or perhaps provide some insight on future track of paladin class or if we're just going to slowly keep nerfing it?

 

yo real talk like how is spamming blast and pressing one different button once every 15 seconds any more exciting than pressing blast, paladins acting like they got some nutty combos or something?? but its literally just pressing one different button every 15 seconds anyways

pls throw these paladins a bone man I know we're all about the GMS like but just cuz paladins were a meme on GMS doesn't mean they gotta be a meme here lmao, at least give them their 10 second HH back IMO since like making HH scale off attack seems like a lot of custom coding? Maybe give em some buffs on the charges or blast or something yknow to further improve their supposed identity of being the premier single target melee hero IDK man im just a shitposter not a balance man, I believe in u guys to make a good middle ground that'll boom these degen HH mule strats and not make every paladin want to pull a yolock

 

I hear what many of the Paladins are saying regarding the nerf to Heaven's Hammer, it was never an easy choice to make but I'd like to clarify the reasoning behind the change further and try to explain the logic behind the change. We're still open to suggestions regarding Paladins, but the suggestions need to address the concerns without leaving further wiggle room for people to exploit.

Effective cost is the driving force behind what is and isn't viable when it comes to running mules in Horntail. The value attained from using a mule has to be worth the effort and costs associated with the use, that is the principle at work when it comes to mules being used. What it eventually came down to was being able to add roughly 200 million damage to your total in HT, along with added utility in a free sed target. This came at the one time cost of creating the mule plus roughly 1.5mil in pots in order to utilize the mule. It's important to compare that cost to the use of an Onyx Apple. For 1.5mil you'll be able to add in (figures will vary) ~20mil damage to your total. When HH mules were most prevalent apples were also more expensive, but that can be ignored. Given the comparison, it's clear that there's a very large difference in cost and value, where HH mules have a large initial cost in creation, they tended to be incredibly effective after that for an incredibly low cost. A HH mule is capable of dealing ten times as much damage as an apple would, while roughly costing the same to use.

That ultimately brings us to question what can be done. We've considered making HH deal % based damage like all other skills, but this simply adds to the cost of running the mule without reducing the effectiveness. It would only be a bandaid fix as it simply makes all of the old mules useless, while leaving room for future mostly naked level 140 Paladins to continue the legacy. I'll ask for suggestions, but at the same time I believe they should keep the reasoning behind this change in mind.

But on a personal note, making claims about how the change will effect damage without trying it first and demanding compensation/a response is a rather negative thing to do. It's just made me not want to respond, as "staff" is not a faceless person it's mostly a bunch of currently very busy people working hard to deliver a patch. It's stressful work, and I hope people can be more careful with their words as to not add to that stress.

 

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I think we fully respect what you guys do, and understand that it is a thankless job and ultimately a hobby/passion which allows us to enjoy content more, so I am sorry that you feel that way. I think everyone is frustrated right now on both sides so as a result there are things said that everyone should keep in mind to not take personally, because nothing ever really is.

To clarify on the frustrations though, I think paladins understand that HH mules were a problem and I don't think we are arguing that. The problem is we think paladins have taken a huge hit, and although there was points previously mentioned in this thread and the other thread, it didn't seem as if anyone wanted to accept that this paladin fix isn't really an end all for paladin mains until now. Ultimately we don't have all the details on the how code works, or how the formulas work so for us to actually give you guys the ways to fix this problem is easier said than done. All we can really do is push the conversation forward.

 

hey mr dk gm the nerf to pally is pretty bad.

can imagine being a pally main and seeing your lines turn from 199k to 50k with no compensation buffs.

targetting mules should at least provide a bandaid when you’re gonna gut pally dmg by 1/4 every 10 seconds. no testing needed

even if it’s a tempory fix to the mule problem, the wait for the next patch buffs is going to take forever and with no guarantees that the class will be restored to it’s former glory.

pally mains life matter@-@

rip pallys

 

the pally dpm chart only reflects non elemental weakness dpm bosses. if it were to be used on elementally weak bosses it would probably be 50%+ more single target dmg.

 

I find it hilarious that people are chalking up the “identity of heroes” as if it’s something special, like it’s anything more than an attack potion.

I’ll take the “best single target damage” role any day, thanks.

#buffenrage

 

rip yolock
pallies can still be useful in other ways, ya?
magic crash could 'add a unique facet of skillful counterplay to boss fights'. that part.
'pally's 2nd job skill Threaten has a ton of potential to be a highly useful debuff.' and this part.
im all for more effective single target dps/ utility skills/ less 1button smash classes.
thx for keeping the game updated.