Information Summer 2020 Balance Changes [Explained]

It just seems kind of odd. I'm not sure the full grasp of how much this effects non heavily funded pallys is understood. The only point of the game this won't matter is when blast dpm out weighs old hammer dpm, those people are unaffected. My point remains that early game, mid game and even somewhat later game paladins recieved a big kick in the nuts. Although paladins remain a very solid bosser at some places like NT,
or zak body, and are true to their source of being elemental boss attackers, I don't think it's understood how big of a hit they take at HT. The reason I think this is a concern is because HT is literally the place for people to enter mid game dpm territory and advance their characters, because frankly nothing compares to the money plus exp gain at HT for the time in regards to paladin gameplay. I mean the math is pretty simple right? With hammer being so useless at HT, single target blast spam is the meta, and stance is not one hundred percent so paladins took a huge cut in DPM no? I'm a paladin main and have entered HT around 70 times, not including the work it took to get to that point. But my gut intuition is my DPM will be too low to belong there now, and only fully resetted paladins with somewhat high end game gear will put up 3m plus dpm through the 45 minutes with just blast.
Since we're talking transparency, is this the goal? At what point are players supposed to be able to post decent numbers at HT? Hero's can cleave so I'm not sure why they are compared to paladins in the graph among others in there that have a variety of other abilities which make them useful in addition to their possible cleave dmg. To tldr this, paladins took a big hit at HT, they have no party buffs that make them wanted and it's going to be much harder for them to enter end game territories where the hammer nerf does not effect them greatly. Is it not a possibility to nerf charges, increase blast percentage, while also reducing hammer time? In theory this seems to work towards balance/allowing a cleaner progression of gameplay for paladins.

 

We see a lot, we're just quiet. I read just about everything posted, it's just that most everything goes into internal discussions and everything said on a staff account is "officially" a staff statement unless otherwise stated, which means a lot of care goes into what is said for the sake of consistency. We acknowledge just about everything, but it ends up taking time to craft something everyone can agree on.

 

But according to everyone they're apparently fine because "they have a lot going on".

 

Why nerfing again MM? even with si we were weaker than BM with good gear. Truth is MM with si should outdamage BM. Better mob skills early doesn’t justify that discrepancy at end game as washing is not optional for pink bean so you must leech anyway. furthermore, getting good gear and level 200 should be rewarding as it’s much harder to get that than training those early levels if you consider no leech scenario. so, please, reconsider that marksman change. The mastery might not ever worked but 5 att less is a huge difference. Doing this you are only reinforcing NL BM meta.
joota Nise Alyosha

 

Yea I agree with most of this. Paladins only have SLIGHTLY more single target dpm than heroes while being unable to cleave. If Paladins identity is supposed to be single target damage why do they barely do more? The argument they are good at NT/Scar and that should offset it doesn't sit well with me when CWK/HT are significantly more important overall then anything NT/Scar has to offer.

 

Yes I agree. But in the past I've been presented with paladin NT numbers or scar numbers in order to say they are too OP in single target dpm. But especially nowadays, NT is pretty much for exp or crafting, and as for selling scar helms... well I don't see many people do it. But regardless neither of these things compare to the usefulness of cwk or HT in maplelegends gameplay so it's a huge hit to make paladins weaker at both while trying to justify it by saying NT and scar are major pros for the job.

 

Maybe next patch we will get a bucc buff. Also can you guys at least make HH go back to its 10 sec CD? since you nerfed down to 15 cos of the mules

 

I'm assuming there are some considerations that must be made with respect to grinding with regards to reducing hammer cd. Not sure if that would be a big deal or not.

 

I actually agree that MM could outdpm BM with SI, but for the sake of information you should know that currently SI-MM pretty much always outdamage their BM equivalent as long as we are comparing dpm's on anything lower than stew. The only way a BM can match their SI-MM equivalent on normal attack buffs is to not only be lvl 200, but have pretty much perfect gear, and by that I mean like 1250+ dex, 140+ bow, 21+ glove, 15+ cape, which is nigh impossible for all but the sweatiest.

Earlier I also championed the position BM should retain a greater % of their theoretical DPM to do certain BM exclusive optimizations in bosses, but it turns out that MM's have found their equivalent to BM's Hurricane Input Buffering in the form of sticky key jump attacking. So in terms of % dpm retained, a perfectly played BM and MM shouldn't differ by much in that regard either.

 

Si and apple MM gets outdpmed by apple BM. Si is hard to find and you won’t have that most of the runs. now that dex buccs are gone, it’s even harder to get. being able to be comparable only with si is really unfortunate and it’s even weaker. getting to 200 with the gear you mentioned is hard but not impossible and it’s not encouraging to do that as you are weaker even with a speed buff. Of course, rework of snipe may solve that but the 5 att nerfed today just doesn’t make sense

 

Selquin how would u baalnce them out specifically? Also I think MM has an edge if they get hit cosntantly cos how skills works comapred to rapid fire skills, seems getting hit when u are using huricane makes u lose more dmg than if you use a skill like tt or strafe or any skill pretty much o.o
Edit: this is because damage is added to teh monster the moment you press they key so if u get kb during the animation doesnt matter as much as interupting your stream of attacks

 

Inc long reply.

To start off, I want to say thank you to the balance team for putting in work. A lot of the changes in this patch are definitely for the better and the work that went into them is appreciated. Keeping HS is a step in the right direction for MapleLegends and I'm happy to see it saved. HT is now harder but still rewards strategic gameplay. Fixing the bucc str/dex avoid formula is another positive step, as this will reward real bucc players once the numbers are tested and cemented after some trial and error.

We all knew the motive for this patch was to nerf mules, and it did so successfully. I think the issue is better fall out that wasn't fully thought out when it comes to Paladins.

Please stop saying you want to make changes to be more "GMS-like". That is not a valid reason and offers zero transparency. If its to stop muling, say that. GMS v62 was a pile of hot liquid garbage. No one wants this game to be like GMS, which was horribly unbalanced and outdated, with certain classes feeling completely unplayable. Saying y'all want to emulate it does a disservice to the work you've put into ML to make it a modified v62 server that is better than GMS and held to a higher standard. ML resembles GMS but it is not GMS which is a very good thing. As someone who mained a paladin in GMS in this version, every time you say you want to go back to the roots of GMS it makes me worried for the future of the server.

Anyone who knows me knows that I hate "optimal dpm" tables for multiple reasons. The main one is, of course, that these numbers are in a pristine, controlled formula that doesn't account for a multitude of mechanics that affect DPM, and 99% of players will never be able to reach this statistic.

Ignoring my personal bias against these charts, why are we showing warrior single target dpm? We all know paladins are the best single target warrior class. Now that HH is not viable for endgame bossing damage, your perfect DPM charts should be comparing paladins to NL, sair, BM, MM, etc. If you are going to take away the only real "cleave" in HT and zak arms, then we need to be seeing damage comparisons with other single targets. Showing a chart of other warriors who are cleave classes is a padded statistic that shows nothing. Show us paladin vs other single target and then paladin vs warrior cleave. It definitely won't look that pretty.

A ton of people have asked for a scaling HH to mitigate muling and that makes a lot more sense than this nerf. If we are reworking bucc formulas to make dex buccs irrelevant without hurting real buccs (or cushioning the blow), why is a similar solution not happening for HH mules/paladins. Making HH variable on attack range would solve the issue with muling without hurting paladin's versatility in fighting.

This nerf, while helpful for fixing HH mules, has turned paladins into another flavorless 1 button class. I guess it's good for everyone who has a backlog of anime to watch, but having to pay attention to screen placement and timing kept paladin engaging in HT and other fights. The QoL of the class has just been wrecked to fix a muling problem that exists because of the hemming and hawing on multiclient and a server that rewarded mules for far too long unchecked. Please consider putting HH on a range based formula or further balancing away from GMS standards.

Thanks for coming to my ted talk

 

Hello, first time poster here. I just want to carefully slide this in here because it was the first thing I checked before I joined this server: Magic Crash.

While I was disappointed at the time, but I completely understood and had faith that you guys know what you are doing (and I still believe this ).

Again, I push this thought up here very carefully because I don't really know what I'm talking about and I don't know the history of this game too well. As a new player, this Holy Shield mechanic is a complete outlier based on what I've read on previous patch notes and the general feel of this game. Please don't get me wrong, I love seeing this mechanic going through as I'm not as hardcore as other players I see here. But this to me is a huge breakthrough against the "Oldschool GMS" motto that this game seems to pride upon.

Like I said, even still, I'm personally a huge fan of this change and want to know what are the thoughts on possibly something very controversial...

The explanation claims that the Holy Shield mechanic "adds a unique facet of skillful counterplay to boss fights. It allows distinguished Bishops to make the most of their kit, and thereby make it more challenging and engaging for Bishops."

I admit I'm a small brain, but I personally view Magic Crash functionality against bosses will add a unique facet of skillful counterplay to boss fights. It allows distinguished Paladins to make the most of their kit, and thereby make it more challenging and engaging for Paladins (It could also contribute to Pink Bean clear?? ). It isn't even as game changing in my opinion as the Holy Shield. Magic Crash would remove/prevent Weapon cancel buffs which simply helps shortening the run just like a simple damage boost source would (apple, SE, SI, etc). Regarding Pink Bean, Magic Crash preventing Damage Reflect will be a huge contribution to a possibility of this server clearing Pink Bean.

This skill in my opinion is just too op it will naturally come with balance mechanics that players will have to work around, adding in the challenging aspect even further (cool down on the skill, adjusting duration of the debuff of the skill, etc)
**This is where I need this community's help! My smol brain and little experience can't come up with a good solution to make this work. We can revive Magic Crash! We just need to come up with ideas as to how we can revive it.

Now the controversial part...
I pray this doesn't backfire, but the claim from this explanation post honestly fits to so many other skills in MapleLegends than just Magic Crash. You know what, I won't even continue here, because I really don't want this to backfire...

Edit: It doesn't seem like there's a definite answer to whether or not Magic Crash works on bosses. I'm going to try my best to collect enough sp resets from this Vote Cash drop event to test it (why doesn't this server reset SPs to classes whose skills were adjusted?)

 

Isn't MM already "nerfed" in game as compared to the calculation graph shown during the anniversary patch, due to the 5% mastery not working (which is counted in the graph). How does the damage still perform better than expected? I literally don't see how this is happening.

It is like MM is finally start to be a viable choice, and comes the nerf. It is not even op or doing significant more than BM. And don't forget the more sweaty game play that MM have to put in. You even have to time your text chat between your snipes.

 

You are correct that the rapid fire-esque continuous stream of dpm is slightly worse than the discrete chunks of dpm from strafe, but what I had in mind was the techniques for repositioning. An important technique BMs can use is to hold right(or left) against the direction of the KB while they are in hurricane. If you do this your character will start shifting right on the first frame after you get hit, minimizing the amount of time required to walk back into position. The equivalent technique for MM's is to reposition themselves with jump forward + strafe, which makes it so that you dont have to walk before shooting. Its still unclear whether BM or MM retains a great % dpm in something like HT, since MM also lose out from not being able to snipe at optimal timings, but it seems like its more or less about the same.

Personally I would actually push for more radical MM buffs, because being reliant on SI is so incredibly aids compared to the completely buff independent BM (only class in the game with this property). But maybe I have some personal bias here, since I am pretty much the only active BM that can outdpm my MM counterpart on cider, perhaps the weight of being weaker than MMs is not fully registering in my balance intuition. It does in fact seem like the endgame MM's(at leas the ones that use the proper optimizations) are stronger than the other BM equivalents, so maybe thats enough compensation I dunno.

 

stupid dated argument that could just be about used for any class in the game

 

the pally's solo dpm is almost same with the hero, not a big gap. hero can both great single target and the best cleaving then, pally can only slightly better single target? anyway in the end game boss horntail, who will wanna play pally as a only single targeter which has still lower dpm than rangers like nl, though there are other good classes like hero, dk, shad (all has both enough single target and the best cleaving). no one wants to run ht with this pally, has 50k hh damage.

 

Hmm buffing MM more, relying on SI isn't too bad imo, but well I love bucc so all parties I have.... have a buccaneer lol(me)and comboing MM+Bucc seems pretty good on any party (warrior SI+SE is nothign to scoff at specially at cleave bosses).
Maybe some buffs for Bucc and MM would make this combo a bit more noticeable while keeping the old BM+NL still a thing, sadly I also think buffing buccaner altho would make the class a lot better (yes pelase give us some buffs why not?) I don't think bucc will get any more popular, so yeah getting SI is kinda hard outside mules o.o. Bucc as a job is so unknown outside oh yea that class that SI and TL and can go sayan, and their gameplay altho beloved by the mains doesnt fit many way of playing maple (use one skill then u good man).
What would be good as a MM buff? I got some ideas o.o Like if possible removing the punching from piercing perhaps, or maybe even make blind affect bosses by half the effect (like power guard), or maybe even make Snipe fixed 199,999 dmg

 

ok boomer