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Add a Cooldown on Shifter

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by -ovv, Mar 31, 2022.

  1. iccqqq
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    iccqqq Dark Stone Golem

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    buff axe
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Great Work Great Work x 2
  2. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    Did you reach 4th job on a bandit before posting this thread though?
     
    • Like Like x 1
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  3. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Disparity
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    Search the rankings with the text "ovv"
     
  4. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    This suggestion would screw over shadowers more than he seems to realise, might even affect them more than the night lords..

    Shadowers use more skills than just nate/dark sight and there's a pretty big chance of getting screwed over losing your 40% shifter while charging assassinate. None of it would matter though since the two shifters are separate skills so you should be able to "fix" one and not the other.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Estrahl
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    Estrahl Mr. Anchor

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    The attempts at discrediting people for their lack of knowledge or experience is kind of ridiculous, there are plenty of people who got to 4th job before big bang, or before major changes overtook KMS/GMS/SEAMS/etc, and this is not the only private server that has managed things similarly. Gatekeeping the conversation behind "needing to play as many hours as 'me'" is about the most reductive thing you can do for a private server with ~1000 people consistently playing, and barely 20% that amount reading the thread amd deciding it's not worth joining in(less than 50 people actually replied to this thread).

    Like y'all need as many people in the conversation contributing, even if they're not the 420 IQ response you've(not you you, the hypothetical you) clearly set the bar at. It at least keeps your ideas fresh instead of stagnating in the circle jerk pool you've mustered up in your own echo chambers.

    No one person's actual perspective is bad. Attack the argument, not who is writing the argument.
     
    • Agree Agree x 11
  6. OP
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    -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Not sure if you’re reading any of the other comments, but I’ve already addressed the NL vs Shadower balancing disparity several times in this thread.

    Avoid and effective dodge rate in this game deserves to be looked at and there are many arguments to warrant a nerft, but that doesn’t need to be the end of the conversation regarding how it affects the classes.

    Shadowers could be nerfed in avoid to fix trending situations of shadower sed mules, but it doesn’t mean they couldn’t simultaneously be buffed in some other way.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. OP
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Feel free to keep adding your comments but I might as well just announce here I’ve been actively choosing to ignore most of your comments because they come off extremely ironic and patronizing —and reading with feet level of off-topic.

    You talk about myself derailing my own thread when you’ve been the one that hasn’t had a single on-topic comment this entire thread. Answer the questions following the math since nothing else significant has been said after that.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Estrahl
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    Estrahl Mr. Anchor

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    Lol TIL not being a troll because I disagree with your(hypothetical and literal) views is "patronizing."

    Idk maybe just treat a person like a person and you won't be blocked. I honestly respected your opinion the first time I came on here, and thought your arguments were sound enough, until I noticed that you resort to trolling and condescension any time you don't agree with someone but can't actually respond to their argument or counterargument.

    I haven't contributed to the conversation at hand because everything that is currently said hasn't been challenged, and your responses haven't exactly been of any quality worth responding to.

    Maybe next time you find someone on the other side of an argument, you can take the half second it costs you to type ":^)" and actually think of a way to respond to them that isn't a bait to derail your own conversation that you started.

    I think some of the new input into the conversation are good, but don't like that it's once again devolving into, "Let's look up X's ign and use that to determine their legitimacy in this discourse." Your ign means jack shit in this discussion, as it isn't something that has been, will be, or is in discussion to be added to the game by any higher ups. And likely won't be based on where the discussion has been devolving into for the last few pages. This whole topic is a hypothetical and should be treated as such.

    You want to be treated seriously, you want your suggestions to be treated seriously, take everyone else seriously and see how much better a response you'll get. You don't have to agree with everyone but you can at least consider their points
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  9. DrChuchu
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    DrChuchu Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    Alright guess I'm starting like this now. AS A (somewhat high level) NIGHTLORD, I feel that it would be overall better to give other classes buffs rather than nerfing shifter. Off the top of my head, might as well nerf stance as it functions basically identically to shifter sans the not-taking-damage part. As such, Paladins and Heroes (and to a lesser or more expensive degree, DKs) can basically hold down 1 button and afk as hard as a nightlord. Sure, just nerf their macros too then, since it allows them to easily multiclient (moreso than NL too).

    I would rather that other classes receive buffs, which would mainly just be archers and corsairs. Something like a partial stance so that there's higher QoL in terms of repositioning and less dpm loss from repositioning. Like hurricane/snipe/boat giving partial stance. Or letting them cast hurricane/strafe/snipe in the air. Nerfing shifter doesn't benefit other classes apart from "NL now slightly shittier to play."
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  10. Mageor
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    Mageor Mr. Anchor

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    Despite warrior having stance 90% rate, I would like to remind the fact that if knocked back, due to their innate shorter range, there's a 100% chance need to reposition. In comparison to NL's 70% avoid rate, they might only need to reposition once every 2~3 hits. If we talking about specific scenario's like hitting HT from the right side, the time it takes for a warrior to reposition would be made longer as they must climb the rope 2x time and reposition into a pixel perfect spot to cleave in order to have similar enough dpm in comparison to a nightlord, possibly losing 5~7 seconds of damage.
     
  11. HarleyEllis
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    HarleyEllis Pac Pinky

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    The more jobs that can afk attack to better multi during bosses, the better! :vomit:
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  12. Estrahl
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    Estrahl Mr. Anchor

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    What if Shifter was instead set to be an active ability? Haste Booster Shifter, shadow claw & attack a bajillion times. Repeat until carpal tunnel sets in.

    I dunno I'm still in agreement that raising everyone else's flaws would be a better option.

    Superarmor(knockback resist) for bowmen & crowmen during some casted abilities. Corsairs can have more HP/KB resist on their ship transformation. Melee types having a gapcloser removes most problems--unfortunately being knocked off a platform can only really be remedied by making the platform longer or putting a small wall at the end of it to prevent knockbacks from falling, which would likely cause a bunch of complaints for making the raid too easy. Hilariously it would actually make NL's jump attack more of a danger since there would be a chance they could be knocked over the small wall.

    But setting shifter as an active ability would give cause for that ability to turn off at some point, meaning the argument against it would turn from passive "always on" to human error not refreshing it. I could get around that, since avoid is already pretty damn high.
     
  13. flow
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    flow Slimy

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    well, bucc already have stance+i-frames and that insane avoid on secondary stats was used for only for mules right? every way of bossing muling nerfed is fine to me
     
  14. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    just make a night lord! not sure why ppl are playing support classes and grumbling about it. support classes always run the risk of being muled.
    Anything can be muled but damage.
    PS:learnt it the hard way.
     
  15. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    Isn't the whole point of this thread that damage is also being muled?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    I didn't do the math, but 3-4 LUK bloodwashed snipe mule might do more damage than one NL :D
     
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  17. iccqqq
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    iccqqq Dark Stone Golem

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    if you want to stop damage muling then buffing bosses would be the way to go.
    making bosses attacks ignore avoid or giving more bosses damage reflect if possible.
    Devilish
     
  18. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    I read more than I'd care to admit on this forum including your posts this thread (and that you skip the first 160 levels on your characters xDD). Saw you adress it but not really offer a solution which makes it hard to agree with this suggestion.

    It's also a bit too custom and gameplay changing for me to have NLs casting dark sight while attacking. As mentioned before you could also adjust their avoid formula instead if you want to have them get hit more often which would surely be easier to implement aswell. But yea GL, ask for NL nerfs and get buffs instead ;)
     
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    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. philip
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    philip Mixed Golem

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    Would people honestly be happier with having thieves nerfed because it's easier for staff to do that rather than fixing the actual issues, which could be fixed with more minor buffs or a few major buffs to the different classes?

    How are Heros, Shadowers and DK's going to benefit from thief nerfs to avoid or removal of Alchemist (already nerfed). If you were to remove TT-macro wouldn't people just use more laptops too?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Yeah, it's looking pretty obvious that we can't nerf thieves because they're simply too popular. When half the attacker community is NLs it means they have a majority and can't be nerfed at all because they have the biggest vote pie, as is the case in every other game. It's a perfectly healthy state reached not by any balance, but by being more awesome than the other classes who are simply jealous of their popularity. But it's okay because we can support turning those classes into NL-lite so they can also enjoy the feeling of being a NL with their 80% damage reduction and 80% stance, along with being in the top 3 DPS of every single boss in the game. Server fixed, we just give everyone NL conversion coupons and finally we have balance again.
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 8
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    • Agree Agree x 1

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