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Information [Alpha Test] Challenges System - HP Wash Alternative

Discussion in 'Update Notes' started by xiaoyaoz, Oct 9, 2022.

  1. Gustavosama
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    Gustavosama King Slime

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    2:17 PM
    Hunter, Bowmaster
    RIGHT? It's just as easy as that, same with the points added to HP. It's not crazy, and everyone who wants to take this path would be more than welcome to start!

    Really dont understand some people fighting against it like if it was gonna ruin their Maple life or break the game, when just welcomes more pleople to join the game in this new more balanced meta.
     
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  2. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    11:17 AM
    leetoratto
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    I can't speak for everyone else but I know if I were on Staff I would be incredibly cautious about giving a free INT reset to those opting in due to potential abuse or exploitation. The most obvious scenario that comes to mind is a player who goes full INT and leeches a character to, say, 180 hypothetically with nothing but INT (going as high as 900 base INT) and giving their character a base MP pool of 30k for relatively little NX cost, then taking advantage of challenges and a free INT reset to also get free HP washing, at no NX cost. You're potentially looking at the ability to create a 12.4k base HP and 30k base MP ranged attacker for maybe a few hundred thousand NX. As to whether this is actually broken or not is up to the individual to decide, but the fact remains that there's very real potential for abuse with a full INT reset.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
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  3. JKNS
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    JKNS Selkie Jr.

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    1:17 PM
    Hero, Dark Knight, F/P Arch Mage, I/L Arch Mage, Bishop, Night Lord
    I’m fine with some degree of INT resets, but I agree with beegorattobeegoratto above about blindly offering past a certain point. Adding INT past a certain point makes it very reasonable to reach any of the challenge goals by MP washing (and that number is considerably less than 300 INT: anyone who adds that much either wants way more HP than the challenge system can provide or doesn’t understand washing math). Something around the INT for 1 MP wash per class (136 for Archer/Thief, 176 for Pirate) is probably fine, can be adjusted as necessary.
     
  4. ooShawnyoo
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    ooShawnyoo Dark Stone Golem

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    2:17 PM
    Frenzied
    It would require some work but, could it be possible to offer an INT reset if they also revert any extra HP/MP gained while leveling/washing at the same time?

    If you opt-in into this new challenge system, you either:

    - Keep any HP or MP you made by washing prior to level 100, but you have to reset your stats yourself with AP resets before being able to progress further with the new HP thresholds (as it is now with the current proposed system)

    - Opt for a free, complete stat reset, but your HP and MP also get reset to a predetermined value based on your job and level, that way you can't abuse the system (unless you consider leveling to 100 with extra HP/MP along the way to be a type of abuse since you would be getting a free reset at 100).

    I might be missing some kind of exploit with this, if so feel free to build on this idea if you think it could potentially work.
     
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  5. Averdant
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    Averdant King Slime

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    2:17 AM
    I'm concerned for people who got their first chars to level 155-165 ish while being minimally washed and decided to kalash wash for PB in future by first resetting to 300-400 base INT and slowly leeching their way up 15-20 levels while waiting for NX to MP wash + reset back base INT, and don't have the NX to reset their 300-400 base INT back to 4 in order to participate in the challenge.
    I believe the intended purpose of having this hp wash challenge thing is to allow players to not hold large amounts of base INT & wait for months or years of NX to wash if they don't want to and yet still be able to participate in end game bosses, it would defeat the purpose if these players had to wait out months of voting in order to participate in the hp wash challenge.

    Like what other players have mentioned, if staff is concerned about people abusing free base INT resets for mp washing shenanigans then staff can just assign a fixed hp/mp value to characters who decided to participate in the hp wash challenge.
    I'm sure the last thing staff would want to do is to lock out players who need the hp challenge from the hp challenge.

    As for the hp washing challenge itself, some people may be against the idea of party clearing challenges but for myself I would like to see a mix of solo & party clearing challenges. Some solo clearing challenges such that solo players who usually don't play with others will be able to clear some of the challenges by themselves, and some party clearing challenges to encourage party play (but hopefully not mule party play) in the server.

    Party play challenges
    Completing X amount of HPQ/GPQs, killing bosses like JC Krexel Scar HT NT etc

    Solo challenges (which I do not think is necessary to be related to killing mobs, but ideally tasks that would make them explore different contents of the game)
    Accumulating X amount of Y mob kills
    Completing X amount of quests (since we don't have a quest ring for HP)
    Passing X amount of 10/30/60/70% scrolls (which could also give junk scrolls a base value and add a minuscule amount of meso sink from transactions, if we had to do 50/100/150 passes)
    Crafting X amount of equipments (you can make them craft an equipment of every level from 10-100)
    Accumulating X amount of omok/match set wins (obviously there would be people who just cheat and play against themselves or trade wins, but it could spark a higher level of interest in mini games in the server)
    Achieving X amount of fames (or defames, for those who've already committed their chars to defames)
    Completing all JQs at least once in the game :evil_laugh:

    Other suggestions
    Tier 9 or 10 ring can be a requirement for starting lvl 180 hp challenge
    We could also peg monster book ring tier level to the hp challenge tier you're allowed to do, tier 1-9 ring = tier 1-9 challenge and add a final tier of hp challenge at lvl 200 with a tier 10 ring
    Challenges can also be adjusted to be easier if monster book ring tiers become a prerequisite for hp challenge tiers, since monster book rings already take a significant amount of time

    Great work staff!
     
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  6. welch123
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    welch123 King Slime

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    2:17 PM
    nucky, Jacinda
    i dont like it....
     
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  7. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    11:17 AM
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    Can we have the option to reset our HP/MP and opt in?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. borpy
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    borpy Blue Snail

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    Aug 14, 2022
    2:17 AM
    for those who chose the option to opt into the challenger system, could they be given a 1 time unlimited ap reset item to reset out all the int & hp/mp ap points that they have gathered? since upon opting in, they would not be able to wash again.
     
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  9. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    Illiteracy really running rampant in this thread...
     
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  10. Project009
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    Project009 Blue Snail

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    2:17 PM
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    This requirement shouldn't be a thing

    The base HP increase prize can only be redeemed if:

    • The player has no AP invested in their HP/MP pool;
      • If they have any, they can take them out via AP Resets in order to be eligible.
    • AND their HP is under a certain threshold
      • The formula we used to calculate the HP eligibility is actually a bit more complicated than this, as it projects your HP to the next threshold level to see if you are eligible.
     
  11. Erii
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    Erii Red Snail

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    Apr 29, 2020
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    3:17 PM
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    back to game after thiss see u guys
     
  12. JanitorPedro
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    JanitorPedro Snail

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    2:17 PM
    Beginner, Shadower
    I hope some of the challenges require to do handpicked quests that were not normally seen as necessary but promotes more exploration (please no RNG). I recall someone wanted a quest ring but this would be a more fitting incentive to do more quests. I just hope the challenges isn't kill X amount of mobs/bosses albeit I think the latter thresholds should be kill pink bean or whatever end game content is available
     
  13. noobonmove
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    noobonmove Mushmom

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    11:17 AM
    SwordSlap
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    Not sure if mentioned yet
    Is it possible for us to gain MP as well through these challenges? instead of just HP
     
  14. Tarnished
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    Tarnished Pac Pinky

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    11:17 AM
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    While already pretty generous, I think the Warrior challenge curve can afford to be a bit more generous - as in it should go up to 30k base HP

    Ease of washing is the one of the main positive aspects to the entire class. If you’re mega funded, chances are you’re building a ranged attacker or at the very least just leeching most the way.

    I think the challenge system will remove a lot of the incentive to build a warrior because the system clearly caters to unfunded players who will face a choice between a 22k hp Hero which is kinda dogwater versus a 12k hp NL is pretty hard to achieve normally. Warriors already struggle early game because they suck at PQs, can’t hit anything, have high pot costs and poor mobility - now they’re also one of the only classes that really should add base INT.

    It just seems like a losing proposition for a class that was historically beginner friendly, but not necessarily the strongest for end-game content
     
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  15. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    2:17 AM
    wont your suggested min amounts make Drks more irrelevant?
     
  16. Estrahl
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    Estrahl Mr. Anchor

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    11:17 AM
    Kiyomasa, kage, miko, zoku, etc
    Dragon Knight, Cleric, Bowman, Bandit
    90
    Perion
    On my DK I barely washed at all and I'm set to hit 30k HP well before 200. Washing on warriors is stupid easy, setting up the Challenge system to compete with washing isn't really the point of the challenge system.

    Mages are exempt from the MP washing part, but in order to start you do have to pull out all the points you haven't yet taken out via AP resets.
     
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  17. Tarnished
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    Tarnished Pac Pinky

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    Agreed, I'm just saying the challenges system will make higher tier carries much more accessible. Warriors and shads are already less desirable by late game, so post-challenges the only reason someone would build a cleaver is if they really really enjoy cleavers.

    I think allowing challenges to build a 30khp Warrior / >15khp Shad would at least give new players some food for thought when choosing their class because then there'd actually be a tradeoff to picking NL/BM/Corsair over a melee. Sure, washing warrior to 30k is pretty easy, but it's not easier than not washing at all, especially for newcomers who don't understand the mechanic
     
  18. mana2468
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    mana2468 Blue Snail

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    Apr 16, 2017
    2:17 PM
    It is a good plan and I like the approach. From what I can conclude, this definitely caters to new players and to players not fond of washing. This would destroy the barriers people had in wanting to create an attack class/class of choice. This patch will definitely make the Dark Knight a necessity for boss runs.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If it is going through, I would like the hp threshold to be higher at 190.
    • Warrior - 30k w/hb
    • Bucc - 25k w/hb
    • Sair/BM/MM -21k w/hb
    • etc.
    PB and Haven touch dmg is 24k. 19k w/hb for Bucc is too low as they need to be up close.

    No point in giving this alternative hp method if they're going to die from a touch damage end game.

    People washing will naturally have higher or max hp at end game, so 30k at lv190 seems reasonable, no? Plus, even getting to 190 is no walk in the park.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This "Eligibility" section right here.

    「 Eligibility 」

    The base HP increase prize can only be redeemed if:
    • The player has no AP invested in their HP/MP pool;
      • If they have any, they can take them out via AP Resets in order to be eligible.
    • AND their HP is under a certain threshold
      • The formula we used to calculate the HP eligibility is actually a bit more complicated than this, as it projects your HP to the next threshold level to see if you are eligible.

    Make it "If a class (Other than mage) has no invested "INT". Instead of "HP/MP" pool.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I believe you should allow previously created characters to undergo a reset of their stats.

    Ex. If I have a lv140 character that I washed with 100int. Allow an option for me to revert back to the natural hp/mp state according to that level and accept the "Challenge System".

    I'd love a little compensation for the time and effort spent on the character though.

    People literally save for months and years so that they can fully enjoy the game as their favorite class. Voting has been a big part of gameplay as washing has been regarded as a "necessity" for the longest time and voting every day is more difficult than one thinks. I urge you to consider the time and effort these players put into their accounts.


    I've more ideas and thoughts but its getting too long. Thank you for reading. This is my opinion. Feel free to share yours.
     
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  19. Rapskal
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    Rapskal Chronos

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    4:17 AM
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    I also feel like this system will take away some of the appeal from warriors. I appreciate that the threshold is set to be just enough to do PB at 180 without HB, but I think having more excessive tankiness than that would be appropriate for the warrior class.
     
  20. Estrahl
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    Estrahl Mr. Anchor

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    It's a fair assessment. I think over time things can be adjusted and not in a janky, "we gotta comb through each player's stats and rework them."

    Like, for instance, say over the course of a year, they find the challenge system needs tweaking, and that Warriors should have more than 19k HP by 180.

    Well they can adjust the quest reward exp, but for the people who have already completed some quests, it'll adjust on the next quest(in ten levels, which, the higher you go, the more that can be a problem of time invested). But even then, and especially the ones who have completed the lv 180 quest, the dev team can add an adjustment quest from Cassandra that fixes the current HP to the right value. Simple track of what your level is and checking off a list of the completed quests, then readjusting the values. No biggie.

    The nice thing about adding this is that they've given themselves a lot of wiggle room to adjust HP values without screwing people over in the event that something isn't working out, and they need to adjust the numbers.
     
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