CWKPQ Balance Notes

MoN is one of the main incentives, but the main incentive to do something over and over is its other rewards as well, which I think various 30% scrolls and crushed skulls and attack pots are good to keep the player doing the pq over and over and not stop once they get a MoN. Comparable to HT, people do it over and over for mastery books, but getting the pendant is also one of the main objectives.

Well, the main arguement is keeping HTP relevant and I believe that 1~3 att with 1slot is the best middle ground of keeping MoN the BiS pendant for rich players and HTP relevant for poorer/new players since the level of equipping both pendants aren't too far off from each other. Elitism is not necessarily a bad thing, if it is then WS shouldn't exist cause only elitists would go for perfect weapons.

 

Hiyo the magician classes and at least a few other individuals will find the HTP superior to the MoN regardless of the stats of the eventual MoN (assuming) the MoN gets no stronger than the untweaked gms MoN. For example, if magicians take up half of the existing active playerbasd (lv 120+), then at least half of the players will keep and use their horntail pendents as magicians don’t benefit from the MoN

 

Mages do make up the majority of the playerbase, but not even 90% of the players are mage mains. This change ultimately affects attacker classes or rather non-mages. The issue is about keeping HTP relevant to ALL classes and that's why a nerf was proposed.

 

Most of the mages in the server are likely Priests & Bishops, which means they're likely either Door/HS mules or they're the first character that people don't necessarily want to play but believe they have to in order to fund the character they do wish to play. So to be fair, a good percentage of mages aren't going to care. That leaves a majority of players wanting to use a MoN over a HTP if left unnerfed.

 

The main question is why you want to keep the HTP relevant to all classes? People simply agreeing with the proposed nerfs but not giving an explanation. And those who did explain, I've given a solid and reasonable explanation for them to reconsider. But then they just repeat what they said in a different way while not further expanding on this discussion.

I've stated in my many posts above that it is not necessary to keep the HTP relevant, especially to all classes, as the damage bonus provided by a MoN really only surpasses physical classes when your strong enough as a higher level. So players would ideally be affected by the choice of a MoN vs HTP once they are a high enough level and strong. Why do you want to keep the MoN slightly worse off/better off than the HTP by nerfing it?

 

People are also misinterpreting Jase post. Re-egging does not mean double egging a pendent. A one time 2nd chance to egg an unegged pendent is what Jase is trying to say. You can't get a 2nd egg quest until you turn in your old htp. This check is to ensure that a htp cannot be double egged. As for repeatedly doing the quest for a horntail egg, that's not a problem as you can't repeat the quest over and over again. You can only do it once, and then twice and that's it.

 

Let me help you out with why you are experiencing this problem. First off, you've argued that 75% of classes would benefit from an unnerfed MoN. Next, you've said that the MoN vs HTP choice would only affect people when they are high enough level, but you've already said from your first point that 75% of classes would naturally choose the MoN over the HTP. Without a reason for why anyone would choose a HTP at levels 120 - 150, we don't see the relevance of your argument here. The MoN can be equipped as early as level 90, while the HTP is first equipped at level 120 (with the understanding that it would be highly unlikely for such a low level to survive the encounter) which means 75% of classes would gain no endgame equip from the endgame boss. You've effectively argued FOR a nerfed MoN! People can CWKPQ first, get a MoN first, and it would be their endgame Pendant 30 levels before the HTP would be available to them!

 

MoN has lvl 110 requirement: https://lib.maplelegends.com/?p=armour&id=1122059

 

Okay, so 10 levels. At what level would you have to be to survive the HT run to get a Pendant?

 

You can enter HT at level 80 - that is the level that you can complete the prequest. As long as you have 5.6khp + HB you can survive. Mages need about 8k mp and 2.1k hp

Please note the hp requirement for mage is based off being able to survive the rock if you get dispelled. You can technically get away with less.

 

Take the user Cyrion (Thiefwill) for example. He bought and received his htp in his lv 12x as a sin. I have a sin that's lv 132 but was capable of receiving a htp at a level much earlier than lv 120. Many people can survive horntail at an arbitrary lv 120 to receive their htp at lv 120. I've also stated that prior a certain level, the HTP is > a unnerfed MoN in terms of raw damage output per minute. Also, have you forgotten about Neo Tokyo bosses, Castellan and Castellan Toad? How about hp washing? Let me help you understand something. You are arbitrary defining the end game boss as horntail and it has been established that there are already an "ender game" bosses. Fishfloona could be a later end-game boss for all you know but since you, Annolis , clearly don't know what your talking about by your comments and I do, let me and other people who know what is really going on with this subject to do the talking. I would also highly recommend you not continue with this line of useless commenting as your posts have lately been blatant posts trying to disprove facts/realities with lies and false statements as this is and will be treated as spam going forward and do not belong in here. Let's fill this forum thread with useful, factual information, opinions with support to further this discussion.

 

Well someone is full of themselves aren't they. I just told you what I took away from your posts. If that angers you, then that's your problem. Reflection is difficult for some. At any rate, most everyone I've seen commenting on this thread arguing against an unnerfed MoN all see HT as the end game boss. Perception is reality, my friend. What you see may be different than what everyone else sees. You're trying to force your opinion in this thread more than warranted. You aren't the only person playing this game, so your opinion is equal to mine and everyone else's no matter the difference in experience and knowledge of the game. And don't lose sight of the truth: Kimberly's opinion is the only one that matters - so if you'd like to see how useless your threats are, go right ahead and file a complaint with Kimberly. I'm not offended or afraid. So if your testosterone poisoning has subsided...

A lot of players will look at their attack range as the basis for which pendant they should use. If a player got both, it's quite likely they'll use whichever one gives them the higher range at that level and never assume their attack range would ever be different. If the HTP gives a higher attack at the lower levels and then is taken over by the MoN at some arbitrary level, then maybe make the MoN's level requirement around the level the MoN takes over? Even still, the HTP should still be the better pendant because more work is required to get it. Here's a thought! Why not switch the stats of the HTP and MoN? Would that make everyone happy? I doubt it.

There are two sides to the argument that needs compromise. 1. HTP should be the end game pendant. 2. The MoN should not be nerfed. What's your compromise?

 

Hiyo says for the pend to be 1-3att with 1 slot, not nerfing it with 1-3att.

 

I think most people play this server for the nostalgia, whats nostalgic with nerfing items that we used to have.
Rather not have MoN added at all then a 1-3att 0slot trash item.

 

Add a trash Blackfist Cloak while your at it.

Yeah this server is literally advertised as nostalgic.(https://gtop100.com/topsites/MapleStory/) Going against nostalgia seems like a risky thing to do. As for giving the pendent 1 slot. Your why give it a slot for people to chaos the pendent. This 1 slot option isn’t a meso sink solution either unless the game is also introducing an non-player character (npc) that sells chaos scrolls. Hiyo If you consider giving the players the option to chaos, the good chaos scrolls definitely make the HTP no-longer relevant to all classes. What this is actually turning into is another elistist item that is even less fair for those who are not elitists/aimming for elite status. This even worse than straight up leaving the MoN unnerfed in my opinion.

 

I think that's a misconception about this server. Some people do come for the nostalgia, but a lot of players (like myself) come to play the game like we used to play ten+ years ago before BB and before Neckson screwed everything up. But there were a lot of bad things with GMS that Kimberly has fixed (like forced HP washing). I remember when the MoN came out in GMS and thought, "Why the hell would I HT if this MoN is better than the HTP?" People would say for skill books and what not, but I always felt a bit gypped by that.

Now this would take a massive undertaking, but... could be a possible solution. What if CWKPQ becomes the new endgame activity? That would mean increasing the level requirement to CWKPQ well beyond 90 and increase the level requirement to wear a MoN to like...idk...140? 150? I don't know if that could work.

I'm with you on this point. I don't see why the cape can't stay the same. I mean...if HTP is to be the endgame Pendant, I don't see why this cape can't be the endgame cape.

 

I suggested a two difficulty system with regards to cwkpq, easy: (normal gms/jms difficulty) and a higher level difficulty (maybe add an annoying pirate boss from Japan Maple Story? The easy mode can retain the nerfed MoN and the higher difficulty can have the unnerfed MoN. However a two difficulty system seems too far fetched.

The Blackfist Cloak item, it is a higher level item, so shouldn't have at least unnerfed stats? By nerfing both the MoN and Blackfist Cloak. This system is just catering to the elitist (via protection). A nerfed 1 slot MoN will also cater to the elitist. How expensive will it cost to finally become an elitist?

 

I agree with Annolis and while it’s true that we are here for nostalgia, there were a lot of things that were wrong with GMS. I am happy that Kimberly is addressing these issues. MoN was too overpowered, and you have to remember as well that as time went on in GMS, Neckson got cash greedy so a lot of things they implemented were quite terrible. Even back then I disliked and questioned the implementation of MoN. It completely wiped out HTP, rarely did I see people using it over MoN.

Also, nothing has been decided yet on stats of MoN. Simply the main consensus here is that make it at least more or less on par with HTP. That’s all. It shouldnt overshadow HTP completely. I think that’s a fair thing to agree on.

 

The MoN cannot be more or less on par with the HTP. If this is truely the case, then the MoN will serve no purpose in the game thus shouldn’t even be added to the game. The MoN has be the best in slot (BiS) in the game (for non-mages). Think of bossing pre NLC and how NLC potions changed the scope of bossing. If kimmyand the game dev’s want to truely make this cwkpq release in line with the current stage in the game, then a lot has to change. I will discuss job strength overall below.

The only way to make the MoN work would to release it unnerfed. While nerfing the MoN seems like an easy solution, you have to ask yourself this question; what is the nerf on the MoN really accomplishing? Some will say it is to keep the relative damge out between classes the same. Meaning the difference in damage by classes is not addressed at all but keeping it constant. Nerfing the MoN hurts sin’s and corsairs the hardest as they are the largest beneficiary. To not hurt any classes with the release of the unnerfed MoN, damage calculations need to be looked at for all of the other jobs. Buff all the other classes. Make all the classes do similar damage to night lords and corsairs. You don’t want to make anyone unhappy, this is the only way to address the damage spread among jobs. Warriors need their skills work properly (rush + achilles). Mages need higher damage output with all of their abilities. Bishop’s genesis width needs to be in line as arch mages’ blizzard and meteor shower skills as genesis attack range width is smaller than its two counterpart spells. Shadowers and Buccs need more invincibility time with some of their abilities. Archers just need more damage in general.

There is no way to fix maple story’s lack of balancing in terms of damage output per class. At the game’s original launch with Korean Maple Story, jobs and classes were not designed equal. Instead, they were given niche roles, something that will be ruined with the implementation of a nerfed MoN. Why were some bosses not doable for some classes? (i.e warriors can’t really fight grandpa boss), Ranged classes were not able to fight horntail untill a really high level or crow/toad boss at all. Mage classes were crowd control tamers. Warriors liked to get up close and personal to their foes. Thieves are supposed to be agile ninjas with evasion. Archers were suppose to benefit with steady aim and pin-point accuracy. (pirates are a split between warriors and thieves). All these jobs are supposed to have a different role. If the game tries to make all classes do more or less the same damage, then whats the point of playing a different class if ultimately your role can be filled with some item or someone else not the same job as you.

To maintain the good old spirit of maple story, the MoN musn’t be nerfed and needs to be released with its untweaked stats.