1. Hello!

    First of all, welcome to MapleLegends! You are currently viewing the forums as a guest, so you can only view the first post of every topic. We highly recommend registering so you can be part of our community.

    By registering to our forums you can introduce yourself and make your first friends, talk in the shoutbox, contribute, and much more!

    This process only takes a few minutes and you can always decide to lurk even after!

    - MapleLegends Administration-
  2. Experiencing disconnecting after inserting your login info? Make sure you are on the latest MapleLegends version. The current latest version is found by clicking here.
    Dismiss Notice

Feedback Dark Knight Skill Changes

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by xiaoyaoz, Sep 20, 2022.

  1. Estrahl
    Offline

    Estrahl Mr. Anchor

    270
    164
    251
    Feb 1, 2021
    Orbis
    11:03 PM
    Kiyomasa, kage, miko, zoku, etc
    Dragon Knight, Cleric, Bowman, Bandit
    90
    Perion
    Edit: I don't really like my old opinion lol

    Overall View

    Overall I like the idea of Dark Knight, I think the base set of skills available work pretty well. I like that it has a mix of heavy mob skills and light mob skills. I like that it could potentially have great utility, but I feel that utility is overshadowed by other classes and unfortunately makes them seem weaker than they already are.

    Anything Lacking
    I think DK lacks a true sense of enmity. Easiest to reach the HP cap yet the way maple is set up, 99% of boss skills are aoe/mapwide, enmity doesn't exist, enmity generation doesn't exist. It's probably not within the range of v62, so that's okay if that's never in the cards. I also think their DPS could use a buff, but not a flat buff, instead make Dragon Blood viable.

    Improvements
    I think Dragon Blood should be a unique solo buff for DK's that isn't overwritten by pots or other buffs. They're touted as the weakest melee DPS, and the fact that a 3rd job skill that can't affect anyone else, and also drains HP, it's sad that it gets overwritten by Coke Zero pills, or any attack pot or party buff.

    Edit: Reading a lot of the posts, I think adjusting Zerk might be necessary. I like the gradient of damage increase, but I think that gradient should be a little steeper, start a tad sooner and plateau a bit sooner. Start at 60% HP, static +50% damage, and end at 20% HP, capping off at +120% damage. At the moment it feels like no one's ever going to hit 110%, no one's ever going to want to risk that, and you'll only ever see that max damage for maybe a single attack(1/1'd) before potting off to the safe 50% hp range. I think a better, more realistic approach would be to give people their sweet spot around 40-45% HP, with diminishing returns the closer you get to the lowest threshold. Just my take on playing games with similar mechanics--the closer you are to getting 1-shot the less likely you are to risk anything, especially when the risk is hours and hours of grinding again.

    Fun/Interesting Ideas
    I think introducing enmity generation would be fun, but that's more of a core concept idea. Marksmen and Bowmasters have the target dummies which pull most monsters to the dummies, but there's no real enmity generation. A tank can't face the boss the other way to take a majority of directional hits to keep their party safe. Everyone pretty much wails on a boss and hopes they don't randomly decide to walk in their direction lol. But again I think that's more a core concept idea that might not even fit in the framework of v62 or be even be a part of the overall direction Legends wants to take.
     
  2. Thuglifer
    Offline

    Thuglifer Capt. Latanica

    345
    88
    273
    Sep 1, 2021
    Male
    2:03 PM
    Beginner
    +1
    I've heard multiple DKs question on why Tiered Zerk wasn't a thing yet, it does really seems like a nice balance and an interesting first steps towards working out something for the DK folks. On top of that, may i add on to say i think it'd be almost plausible to also allow for: "While in Zerk/ HP threshold range, stance success rate increases from 90% > 95% or 100%." Which is kinda nice for especially HT heads small platforms.
     
  3. Estrahl
    Offline

    Estrahl Mr. Anchor

    270
    164
    251
    Feb 1, 2021
    Orbis
    11:03 PM
    Kiyomasa, kage, miko, zoku, etc
    Dragon Knight, Cleric, Bowman, Bandit
    90
    Perion
    Scratching my whole post, this is an updated opinion lol

    Imo Dark Knights should be using their HP as a balance beam, constantly trying to keep it in a sweet spot and quickly trying to adjust when they push too far to one side or another. It fits in line with the whole concept of using their blood, or lack thereof, to deal as much damage as possible.

    There are several skills which help Dark Knights lose HP, and both Dragon Blood and Aura of Beholder seems to be a perfect fit to constantly try to maintain that sweet spot for Zerk. I think Aura of the Beholder and Dragon Blood should both be toggle skills, rather than one being passive and the other just being a regular active skill. Having bother toggleable would make it easier to maintain the balance. Make Aura of the Beholder heal a little bit more than Dragon Blood drains. And Dragon Blood should have its own line, so that it's actually worth the cost and investment.

    After the defense rework I think that sweet spot for Zerk might be anywhere between 18-36%, depending on how well it allows Warriors to take the big hits. (5400 is a bit extreme, but 10,800 seems like it could be good). I believe Zerk damage should start at 60% and soft cap around 25%, with diminishing returns until it plateaus out completely at 10%.
     
  4. ryanlights
    Offline

    ryanlights Windraider

    452
    62
    296
    Jan 2, 2021
    Male
    Toronto, Canada
    2:03 AM
    Dark Knight, Bowmaster
    200
    Prestigious
    DKs dont actually use Dragon Blood FYI

    Aura is also considered a bad skill by many.
     
  5. Estrahl
    Offline

    Estrahl Mr. Anchor

    270
    164
    251
    Feb 1, 2021
    Orbis
    11:03 PM
    Kiyomasa, kage, miko, zoku, etc
    Dragon Knight, Cleric, Bowman, Bandit
    90
    Perion
    Yeah that's what I'm saying what I'd like changed. Make DK's more in line with how they're portrayed in other games, how they were meant to be portrayed in this game. Why have skills that can't even be considered "off meta" as just trash SP invested?

    I mean there's a lot of that in every class, but DK's seem to have it especially bad, so much so that it's considered better to invest into both weapon styles for nearly all of 2nd and 3rd job.
     
  6. ryanlights
    Offline

    ryanlights Windraider

    452
    62
    296
    Jan 2, 2021
    Male
    Toronto, Canada
    2:03 AM
    Dark Knight, Bowmaster
    200
    Prestigious
    DK is def one of those "fun to play, but harder to master" classes.

    Another side-effect of having many underutilized options is when you pull them out for their specific use-case (skills like Monster Magnet) they can really shine. This also kinda makes DK very streamlined to play, doesnt require alot of thought-process because your options are limited from the start unlike a class like Marksman or Shadower where you have so many more APM (actions-pressed per minute).
     
  7. Estrahl
    Offline

    Estrahl Mr. Anchor

    270
    164
    251
    Feb 1, 2021
    Orbis
    11:03 PM
    Kiyomasa, kage, miko, zoku, etc
    Dragon Knight, Cleric, Bowman, Bandit
    90
    Perion
    It's true, they're streamlined once late 3rd job/4th job hits. I just think they'd be a different sort of fun if they took the health balancing aspect and actually gave you skills to tow the line as much as possible, and not "just use pots," y'know?
     
  8. ryanlights
    Offline

    ryanlights Windraider

    452
    62
    296
    Jan 2, 2021
    Male
    Toronto, Canada
    2:03 AM
    Dark Knight, Bowmaster
    200
    Prestigious
    I'll say my final thoughts on the topic here summed up in 1 sentence:

    DK truly needs a complete re-work from the ground up (with end goal of 4th job in-mind).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. bienfu
    Offline

    bienfu Pac Pinky

    180
    30
    181
    Aug 14, 2022
    Male
    11:03 PM
    secondpink
    Beginner
    There is a possible workaround for increasing HB duration without turning Drks into mules w/ reducing Dispel duration:

    Add more Power Ups to Bosses,

    Drks have Power Crash, which cancels Attack Up on bosses. RN Power Crash is an unused skill, only notably useful in CWKPQ for the purposes of saving money, turning the 4-5k damage back to 2k damage.

    Add Power Ups to a number of bosses (perhaps adjusting their base damage, too), this will force Drks to not mule, be close to the boss to attack, pay attention, and cancel power ups for the benefit of the party.

    Then HB duration can be increased annd/or dispel frequency decreased.

    Ultimately, QoL improvement so Drks arent trying to chase people around to HB them and wont be casting as much. They focus on the boss and use power crash, so no muling. And we would be taking an unused feature of the game into something that matters, and turning a filler skill into something useful.


    (And on a side note, a similar feature can be done with Heros and Armor Crash. Giving more bosses Defense up would make better use of Heros' Armor crash and grant greater utility to a party)
     
  10. beegoratto
    Online

    beegoratto Zakum

    1,448
    421
    455
    Sep 22, 2021
    Male
    11:03 PM
    leetoratto
    Bowmaster
    1
    Nimbus
    Wouldn’t both Power Up and Defense Up just become the HS mule’s job?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. bienfu
    Offline

    bienfu Pac Pinky

    180
    30
    181
    Aug 14, 2022
    Male
    11:03 PM
    secondpink
    Beginner
    do HS mules like to get close to bosses? idk

    could just make it so that dispel doesnt break those either
     
  12. beegoratto
    Online

    beegoratto Zakum

    1,448
    421
    455
    Sep 22, 2021
    Male
    11:03 PM
    leetoratto
    Bowmaster
    1
    Nimbus
    Depends on the boss tbh but if the role can be covered by something already part of the run (and EVERY run has a Bishop) then there’s no real incentive to bring a DK with your proposed Power Up/Def Up change
     
  13. Soblet
    Offline

    Soblet Zakum

    1,416
    1,355
    491
    Sep 14, 2015
    8:03 AM
    Soblet
    Bandit
    200
    Pasta
    That's fair, I do hope that if we get major changes we can move towards having multiple options for performing tasks (not just dispelling/controlling a bosses position but also dps) instead of being forced to bring a specific job on every run. Even if it is slightly suboptimal.

    This suggestion of adding more defence up buffs etc. could give the opposite result though, depending on implementation.
     
  14. Tommygunner
    Online

    Tommygunner Mr. Anchor

    257
    69
    251
    Oct 29, 2020
    2:03 AM
    What if berserk worked this way: when they take dmg and their health goes down to 10% then they get berserk buff for the next 30 seconds. Something along this line.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  15. bienfu
    Offline

    bienfu Pac Pinky

    180
    30
    181
    Aug 14, 2022
    Male
    11:03 PM
    secondpink
    Beginner
    what do the sneaky beaky staff have in mind :cautious:
     
  16. Eighty
    Offline

    Eighty Windraider

    425
    83
    296
    Jun 19, 2018
    Male
    Nepal
    11:48 AM
    Hundred
    Marksman
    128
    Colors
    Seems like an active (or even passively triggered) skill with CD where we can zerk at full HP or with impunity or something
     
  17. CreamPuffDad
    Offline

    CreamPuffDad Timer

    100
    26
    120
    Jun 29, 2022
    Male
    2:03 PM
    xLianneBelle
    Dark Knight
    110
    Bonerwood
    Might just be a graphical addition to signify when zerk reaches the higher levels, but seeing as the video does not show the DK taking any damage, my bet is on staff adding an active skill that buffs or improves zerk for a set amount of time, removing the need to be at super low HP to get maximum benefit out of zerk.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  18. Thuglifer
    Offline

    Thuglifer Capt. Latanica

    345
    88
    273
    Sep 1, 2021
    Male
    2:03 PM
    Beginner
    Interesting animation changes tbh, finally i can see my NX while in zerk. Guess if DK does not take damage over a set period of time (rewarding based on player skills) = existing 100% dmg boof (red animation) regardless of HP.

    Seems like a 7s timer on staying in no hit zone before it activates where most boss runs u get hit every 3-5s or so. 7s timer could see a reduction to say 3-4s if as intended. Otherwise the net benefit overall is minimal, unless of course you factor in shad's smoke. Other concern is the small character movement before it turns red, hopefully it doesn't disrupt any attack skills while in mid cast and acts somewhat like how shadow star works; seamlessly.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  19. CreamPuffDad
    Offline

    CreamPuffDad Timer

    100
    26
    120
    Jun 29, 2022
    Male
    2:03 PM
    xLianneBelle
    Dark Knight
    110
    Bonerwood
    Dark Knight... dodging...? In... Maple? For 7 seconds?
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  20. Thuglifer
    Offline

    Thuglifer Capt. Latanica

    345
    88
    273
    Sep 1, 2021
    Male
    2:03 PM
    Beginner
    its the rough timing in the teaser vid, seemed like 7s or so before color changes to red mate, chill.

    It could very well mean various things. It's also assumed that for zerk to have an active skill; red charge as shown, would need a pre-requisite/condition met in order for it to activate/reset its color change. It could well be in the form of either taking X amt of times of touch damage or even being on the same spot for X amt of seconds to qualify for red as an example. Which then can reward red zerkers with say a time limited immunity to stun/sed/seal on top of the existing 100% regardless of HP as an example, allowing them to stand their ground and beat the living shit out of their foes. Cases like PB, taking body dmg is the safer route from getting sed and dying off where red zerk could maybe then shine.
     

Share This Page