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Feedback Dark Knight Skill Changes

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by xiaoyaoz, Sep 20, 2022.

  1. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    2:33 PM
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    The only info worth gleaming over from the teaser is the fact that damage causes a trigger. It's not even HP based, from the start of the teaser to when booster is used nets 120 hp in healing, then booster removes 10 hp and triggers the flashing.

    With any luck it'll do something cool like activate HB for you, meaning HB mules will need to press one less button. It'll also be a nerf to the luk DKs as they won't be able to trigger auto-HB consistently.
     
  2. bienfu
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    bienfu Pac Pinky

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    NEW PATCH WHEN
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  3. CreamPuffDad
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    CreamPuffDad Timer

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    Ah~ can't wait for this to arrive~
     
  4. david665
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    david665 Blue Snail

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    I just want to first of all agree with all the people who said DKs need a major major buff in DPM and with single target damage (if you're aiming for end game), while also not having to think about HB at all times by making it last longer.

    A different solution that people smarter/more experienced than me can come up with can work aswell since let's be honest with everyone washing we're becoming less and less needed cause no damage and HB isn't as needed except maybe endgame AUF or PB.

    Since DK is a rather fast class to level up it's really hard for new players who play DK to fund the potions they need, I 100% agree potions need to be more accessible and easy for DKs.

    The end-game weapons need to be more accessible aswell rather than be a gachapon only item.

    I also LOVE the idea that people want to emphasize the fact DKs are a dragon class. I think visual effects will really revive the excitement people had back in the old days playing DK.

    Back when I was a kid I'd grab my head and say WOOOOW everytime I saw a DK roar, a DK's zerk aura and dragon blood effect.


    I love the new effect you created HOWEVER I do think it'll only look better than the old one if it's both together since I noticed the aura is now only the horns and not a full body one like the old one.

    The red color for the aura is amazing and you could maybe implement it to the dragon blood effect / spear crusher / dragon fury: spear skills (especially the latter since we're called DARK knights it fits more if it's red than light blue)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. bienfu
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    bienfu Pac Pinky

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    I think it's uh obvious for all that since the teaser includes a warrior wearing a reverse/TL taragon we can assume there's buffs to the item
     
  6. ryanlights
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    ryanlights Windraider

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    bump
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Alvin
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    Alvin Slime

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    11:33 PM
    VAPORWAVE, snakewave
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    don't know how helpful this post is going to be.. just throwing another jab at Dragon Blood after doing some simple calculations
    [​IMG]

    so.. 24 mana and 20 hp, every 4 seconds. extended to a whole hour for ease of calculations - it'll cost you about 18000 hp and 21600 mana.
    now if we consider that
    HP 1:1 MESO and
    MP 1:2 MESO
    a whole hour buffed with Dragon Blood will cost you about 63200 mesos
    to compare with Coke Pill (15 weapon attack, 15 min duration, 12k mesos each [AUGMENTED ML PRICE])
    you'll be paying 48000 mesos for an hour buffed with Coke Pill. one downside to coke pill being the constant travel to coke town - on the flip side you don't need to constantly rebuff or worry about it getting dispelled.

    sure, it is not the only useless skill in ML and it was probably a really nice skill in the oldschool GMS FOR GRINDING ONLY - since apparently it has the potential to kill you after a boss does a 1/1 attack :dead:
    now i have no knowledge in how and whether it's even a skill worthy of balancing - this is but an observation. thanks.
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 5
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  8. RemiIia
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    RemiIia Slimy

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    2:33 PM
    ⚜RemiIia Scarlet⚜
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    Alrighty, friends, let's refine Dark Knights and give them what they deserve!

    I would recommend creating separate official game files that alter the color tone of dragon crusher/fury and giving the player access to download directly from the forms to whichever color they desire they may drop into the legends folder.

    let the dark knight players decide if they want theirs to be standard blue, orange-red, or purple.
    :cool: :p :catmouth:

    add the functionality use of Pole Arm to Spear crusher and Spear fury, enabling
    the use of Spear and Pole Arm under both skills. :tick::tick::tick:

    Rename Spear crusher to Dragon Crusher. MapleF15
    Rename Spear Fury to Dragon Fury MapleF15

    Delete pole arm crusher/fury. MapleF17

    The new 3rdjob layout:
    1~11 = Element Resistance
    30 = Crusher
    30 = Fury
    30 = Sacrifice
    0 = Power Crash
    30 = Dragon Roar
    20 = Dragon Blood


    Please consider rewriting the casting speeds and frames of which crusher animation takes to animate. this can be a huge step forward for making dark Knight have fluidity between attacks and movement, whether it is ground clearance or mid-air attacks. Yes, we have Si, Si has always been the halo skill to benefit all classes (except NLs and mages) but if dark knights can have a graceful execution of their attack skills all on their very own it would make for more exciting gameplay this class has to offer when they don't have Si present.
    essentially Dark Knight can be able to attack on par in terms of hit speed comparable to Paladins and Heroes without Si. which I wholeheartedly believe is necessary.


    Dragon blood
    : :tick::lollipop::candy::gift1:MapleF15:tick:
    simple really: 3 changes to this will make it an exclusive niche skill for Dark Knights.
    • Make the 12 att from this skill stackable with attack potions but not with RAGE.
    • Dragon Blood negates if not enough HP/MP is present to keep the skill active, eliminating the fear of 1/1s. players simply rebuff like normal for use.
    • reverse the MP/HP consumption at level 20:
      MP -12 HP -48 every 1 seconds; Attack +12 for 160 seconds

    Beholder:
    Temporarily summons Beholder. With the Beholder's incredible powers, the knight's weapon mastery permanently increases and maximum HP increases.
    lvl 10 MP - 60, Summon Beholder for 20 Minutes, Mastery + 20%,
    Maximum HP+ 15% (34,500) MapleF3 :tick::tick::tick:


    HEX: make it an overall total w.att, w.df, and m.df +acc/avoid R::lollipop::tick::tick::tick:
    (not including potion and skill buffs)
    lvl 10, w.att 2%, w.df 3%, m.df 6%, +acc/avoid = 15
    lvl 20, w.att 4%, w.df 6%, m.df 9% +acc/avoid = 25
    lvl 30, w.att 5%, w.df 10%, m.df 12% +acc/avoid = 30

    Aura: MapleF2:health::tick:

    amazingly enough, Aura CAN be a savior skill when it comes to giving our all with hyper zerk. Now Aura, berzerk, and Dragon Blood will work in tandem.

    lvl: 25: When HP falls to 65% and below, For every 4 secs, recovers HP + 500,

    if HP falls to 15% and below, For every 2 secs, recovers HP + 750.

    BERZERK: MapleF14:tick::tick::tick:
    as for Berzerk, smooth out the curve of increasing damage based on a certain threshold. With this scaled-out hp-dmg ratio output, players can decide which damage formula they'd want on a consistence basis scale on whichever HP levels they want to maintain. and that all comes down to whichever boss they're fighting. At an HP threshold of 80%~ 70%, this would possibly be considered as the goldilocks range for Dark Knight to maintain survivability with end-game bossing as it would yield an 85%~95% damage increase. Overall, this new setup will big a game changer for the class and makes all the skills in unison. complemented by a maxed-out level Sacrifice/Dragon Roar
    (-5%/ -30%)

    1 dragon roar cast will set you from 34500 to 24150 (70% percent of 34500)
    +95% zerk
    so with Dragon Roar+ Sacrifice +Dragon Blood, your HP drops below <24,150
    giving users +100% zerk, @ 65%~ 70% (22425 ~ 24,149)
    Ginger ale + Sacrifice +Dragon Blood, HP=<24,150
    +100% zerk @ 65%~ 70% (22425 ~ 24,149)


    >=90%+< HP: +75% increase in damage
    >=85%+< HP: +80% increase in damage
    /==================================/
    >=80%+< HP: /+85%/ increase in damages :tick:MapleF14
    >=75%+ HP: /+90%/ increase in damages :tick: :tick:MapleF2
    >=70%+ HP: /+95%/ increase in damages :tick::tick: :tick:MapleF15
    /==================================/
    >=65%+> HP: +100% increase in damage MapleF5 :heart: :tick:
    <=50%+< HP: +110% increase in damage MapleF9 :heartbeat: :tick:

    "When HP falls below 90% and between 85%, damage increases by 175%"
    "When HP falls below 70% and between 65%, damage increases by 195%"
    "When HP falls below 50%, damage increases by 210%"

    Beholder+ HEX + Dragon blood + buff potion+Hyper Aura Zerk combo.

    swift movements and sprightly attacks
    Berzerk damage scalability, risk factory determined by you.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
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  9. bienfu
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    bienfu Pac Pinky

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    As much as I like the new changes, giving use to Dragon Blood and saving potions, I still think 120% damage is not a high enough reward for the risk a Drk employs when playing 2 hits away from death with active Zerk.

    Like once a Drk teeters towards 30% or less HP that damage boost should spike up to like 130%, 140%, 150% imo. The slight boosts to damage on the rest of the curve is nice, but the hyperzerking damage needs to be greater.

    Either this or I would also like to see active Zerk not only cleanse stuns and debuffs, but ignore them too for the duration.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. ryanlights
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    ryanlights Windraider

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    All we truly ever wanted was Crusher to do more damage..

    I don't think this is it.

    That's what I thought, that Active Berserk was like Holy Shield, but it only debuffs at the time of activation, not throughout it's use.. which isn't great.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. Ainz
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    Ainz Zakum

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    This seems to rely on the premise that 'being 2 hits away from death' is a higher risk than most other characters take, which (except for highly washed chars) it really isn't. Most of the chars I boss on are usually 2 hits away from death, why reward dks so highly for it?
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  12. bienfu
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    bienfu Pac Pinky

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    Because Dark Knights are melee. Idk what to tell you if you think Dark Knights aren't playing with more risk than other classes when they die the most by far out of all the classes even before this change.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Zorele
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    Zorele Slimy

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    What makes darks more death prone is their lack of avoid. If we take a chaotic scenario like PB statue, unless hero's will is available it's probably hard to make use of active zerk. The only other class we could make a fair comparison with is shadower (since they are melee and typically not hyperwashed) and they are obviously less prone to death even if they could only tank 2 hits due to their avoid.

    I'd probably agree that it would be nice for hyperzerking to be more rewarding but that's probably because i don't think ranged dps should neccesarily be the highest dpm. All in all this is a step in the right direction and darks damage definitely improved a decent amount at death prone content and a significant amount in easier bosses (specially with a shad to increase hyper zerk uptime).
     
  14. OP
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    xiaoyaoz
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    xiaoyaoz Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    Edited the main post to add a link to the Feb 2023 skill changes for DK.
    Thanks again for all the replies and suggestions given here.
    This post is still being monitored for any further constructive feedback on DK, so feel free to give your opinion! :)
     
  15. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    ~Half a year to go from starting this thread (ofcourse discussion did not start here) to implementation, very nice. While I'm not a fan of changes quite as drastic and not "old school" as these it's exciting to think of the possibilities for other jobs and balance in general.

    My money is on mages next, most likely the holy variant
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. Zorele
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    Zorele Slimy

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    Where do you leave our precious shad:
     
  17. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    In the garbage where it belongs.
     
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  18. Tarnished
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    Tarnished Mixed Golem

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    QoL suggestions:

    1. Allow Skill Macro to keep casting after an error. This will let DK map PA "Booster > HB > Spear Booster" and "PA Fury > Spear Crusher" so they can switch weapon without rebinding keys
    2. Something to improve the usability of pet pot with HyperZerk. It's a bit expensive to keep a big potion on pet-HP while Hyper Zerking, but it doesn't make that much sense to put Grilled Cheese in that slot either since you'd have to manual pot most of the time. IMO the cleanest change would be to not force all damage to set your HP to 1 but I recognize this might be too OP. Maybe an option to disable pet pot while HyperZerk is up could be nice.
    3. Allow Zerk and Hero's Will to be cast on your Mount. Oftentimes you can outrun Sed by getting on your horse, but sometimes it ends up being a free seppuku since you can't cleanse
    4. Maybe Dragon's Blood should proc after taking damage, up to once every 4 seconds. This makes the heal a lot more consistent at keeping you alive during Hyper Zerk
     
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  19. mard
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    mard Mixed Golem Retired Staff

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    You can right click your mount to use skills.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Zorele
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    Zorele Slimy

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    after giving some thought to the DK rework I've come up with a bit of an opinion. I think this change is a step in the right direction but to me it feels like it still doesn't completely solve the fundamental issue the elicited this rework in the first place which simply was darks not being able to do their "full damage" in every boss while essentially every other class can (with different levels of efficiency of course). Essentially in every situation where seduce is present dark knights are very death prone being only able to tank 1 hit.

    My main idea is that simply making active zerk work like holy shield would allow darks to actually do all their full damage (In the worst case exchange seduce with stun). While this might sound "OP" I don't neccesarily think that darks would suddenly be "Better" than all the other top tier classes and it would merely lower the gap. Perhaps if that is considered to overtuned even lowering zerk to 115%. The whole idea is to fully commit to darks being able to do their "max damage" in most scenarios.

    Currently I've heard from a lot of semi casual dark players that they feel like the risk isn't worth it. If that turns out to be the common opinion about the change then this would be a terrible tie in with hp challenges since they rely on HB to be completely functional. This change might make darks strong but It wouldn't "Override" the current meta and I believe making darks stronger than perhaps intended is overall positive because of the increased need of them post challenge. I'd personally argue that to call this overtuned it would have to be meta defining which I doubt it would be.
     
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