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Accepted Double Stab needs to be Buffed?

Discussion in 'Accepted' started by xDarkomantis, Aug 19, 2022.

Double Stab needs to be Buffed?

  1. No

  2. Yes

  3. Yes, but maybe there needs to be a slight adjustment to Bandit also to account for this

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    I'd be very interested in seeing the data trends before and after a buff like this. I'd be happy if proven wrong.
     
  2. twing1
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    twing1 Pink Teddy

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    I fundamentally disagree with your logic that because other changes impact a larger portion of the player base, this balance issue should not be acknowledged.

    Double stab is overshadowed by lucky seven in every possible way. Max damage, min damage, range. This is a lack of balance that should be addressed.

    Is it top priority? No, but it should definitely be acknowledged as an imbalance in the game.

    Refusing to acknowledge the imbalance because there exist higher priorities does not solve the imbalance.

    I see no harm in identifying this and bringing it to the development team's attention. I trust them to put it into a ticket and have them put it at the bottom of their priority list, if they choose to do so.

    Trying to bury this issue before it gets to the development team for the sole reason that there are other areas of the game that you would rather see tweaked because it would cause greater ripples in "data trends" is a form of cherry picking to your personal preference. If you believe the skill is balanced as it stands, that's one thing, but to shut it down completely because there are other changes that are more important to you is not in the spirit of game balance.

    All areas of imbalance should be brought to the dev team's attention, so that they can become aware of them and prioritize them accordingly.

    I understand that the wording of the question poll leaves a lot to be desired; "need" is a very strong word. But the spirit of the post stands: double stab as a skill is completely overshadowed by its direct alternative lucky seven and deserves a balance tweak.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    I fundamentally disagree with your logic that because this change impacts a very small portion of player base that this should be acknowledged.

    Is it a top priority? No, and you seem to acknowledge that. Add it to the bottom of the list, sure. That's fine with me.

    The harm in bringing this to the dev team is that it sets a precedence and opens pandoras box for all the other minor imbalances that exists throughout the game. "Buff grenade" "Buff Arrow Blow" "Buff Energy Bolt" - these are all 'valid' imbalances in this game. Do they need to be addressed? No. Should they be addressed? That's entirely up to staff.

    You're putting up your opinion as to why you think things should be changed. I'm putting up my opinion as to why I think they shouldn't.

    I believe our patch updates could be better spent addressing other issues in the game. If all those 1st job skills got buffed, I'm sure I'm not the only one that would be irritated that those changes took priority over other glaring issues in this game.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    You call this a "Pandora's box" as if buffing grenade, arrow blow, and energy bolt would spell the end of the server.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    When you're getting patches three times a year and teased content like the defense rework and HP washing rework gets delayed even further, you really do question if suggestions like these are detrimental to server health.

    If Pasta Davi left due to burnout, it really would spell the end of the server.
     
  6. aaronis
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    aaronis Slimy

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    upload_2022-8-20_17-36-26.png Dobule stab being so trash seperates the fake shadowers from the real shadowers. Double stab bandits rise up. Anyways I think personally it would be neat for double stab to not be shit because even if it did some more damage lucky7 will always be the superior start since ranged attacks mean you take less damage/use less pots and can do the ranged stage in lpq so even if DS gets buffed does it really make bandits better since people that wana minmax bandits anyways will just get lucky 7 no matter what. Unfortunately, buffing double stab will realistically not really affect many people at all, so it is honestly a waste of time to do it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  7. Daydreamer
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    Daydreamer Headless Horseman

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    Buffing double stab is not nearly on par (in terms of work) as completely reworking defense, HP, etc. or coding in new content like NT part 2. It's like two lines that need to be edited, and it's up to staff if and when they wanna take this suggestion.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Camazotz
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    Camazotz Chronos

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    Yeah its pretty wack that you essentially play an assassin at first job cause double stab sucks so much.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. xiaoyaoz
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    xiaoyaoz Balance Team Staff Member Balance Team

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    While it is true that changing double stab will only affect a very small % of the server population, I do think that some time should be spent on the need of the minority.
    And from what is seen from the past, staff do make changes to low levels skills. For example, the most recent case with Beginner's Three Snails and the more older case with Pirate's Double Shot.
    These are things that affect the overall gameplay experience albeit this particular skill only affecting a very short part of the experience.
    There's is just too much to do now that some of these more minor stuffs are in the later parts of the priority list.
    Suggestions like this are still very welcomed tho, feel free to discuss more about it
     
    • Like Like x 6
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  10. Hyoon
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    Hyoon Zakum Retired Staff

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    No reason to change when you already get a new skill at 2nd job.
    Sins are stuck with lucky 7 until they get TT.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  11. CaptainNemo
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    CaptainNemo Slimy

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    Main difference is Lucky 7 is actually usable until you get TT, the damage scales and is impressive from early levels and moving forward. Double Stab through and through is just a underperforming and underwhelming ability. Even savage blow feels like shit until at least level 45 when you have it either maxed out with some points in mastery as well, or just to being able to hit max lines with more points in mastery. Bandit damage problems hurt both funded and non-funded, while even unfunded assassins don't struggle like the former does.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    The main difference is that there is no specific requirement for you to go double stab over lucky 7 in the thief class. Is being a sindit really an odd job? Is going slash blast first over power strike really an odd job? There is nothing tying first job thief skill choices to second job.
     
  13. CaptainNemo
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    CaptainNemo Slimy

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    It's a feature that's been flawed since inception, I see no reason why attempting to fix it now as being a bad thing. This being a priority compared to some other changes/updates being worked on? Sure, this is a low-priority, back burner type of thing, however I don't agree it should just be ignored or discarded. If this is truly your ideology, just recommend to remove the skill altogether.
     
  14. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Feel free to read through my comments again. The question in OP/poll asks if Double Stab NEEDS to be buffed. I don't think something that takes such low priority should be considered a necessity. If it gets implemented, would I be mad? No, it doesn't affect me (and neither does L7). But it also means the time involved took priority over something else that might have been more pressing.

    This thread just proves the concept of a vocal minority. This is why I'd be very interested in seeing data that tracks the overall effect a change like this would have.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Soblet
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    Soblet Zakum

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    As mentioned double stab functions as the divide between bandits and wannabe assassins (big brain bandits go for disorder btw). Making double stab the meta pick for bandits would erase that distinction which has been around since the early days of wizet maple. Would be a real shame.

    And for what? So new players that don't care to inform themselves can have a slightly easier 1st and early 2nd job? Pathetic.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    I asked to make Double Stab better a million times, didn't happen so I guess there are no plans to change this skill. So do like me and other people, Sindit is the way to go: you can snipe on Ludi PQ, and you can have a far easier time grinding until you get Savage blow maxed.
     
  17. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Bump. Double stab still needs more buffing because not enough QoL.
     
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  18. Porkupine
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    Porkupine Timer

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    Nah, using QoL as justification is the weakest argument for any type of change because there is no end to QoL adjustments.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Like Like x 2
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  19. lv1crook
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    lv1crook Capt. Latanica

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    I guess addressing any imbalance in the game that isn’t directly related to HT or PB is just a joke to you.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    Addressing the imbalance would have been removing lucky 7s custom damage formula that doesn't even need mastery.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6

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