1. Hello!

    First of all, welcome to MapleLegends! You are currently viewing the forums as a guest, so you can only view the first post of every topic. We highly recommend registering so you can be part of our community.

    By registering to our forums you can introduce yourself and make your first friends, talk in the shoutbox, contribute, and much more!

    This process only takes a few minutes and you can always decide to lurk even after!

    - MapleLegends Administration-
  2. Experiencing disconnecting after inserting your login info? Make sure you are on the latest MapleLegends version. The current latest version is found by clicking here.
    Dismiss Notice

Accepted Is the White Scroll Prompt Needlessly Confusing?

Discussion in 'Accepted' started by -ovv, Mar 29, 2023.

Is White Scroll Prompt Needlessly Confusing?

  1. Yes, the white scroll prompt is needlessly confusing, and it should be changed.

    19 vote(s)
    32.2%
  2. Yes, the white scroll prompt is needlessly confusing, but it should not be changed.

    4 vote(s)
    6.8%
  3. No, the white scroll prompt is not needlessly confusing, but it should be changed.

    11 vote(s)
    18.6%
  4. No, the white scroll prompt is not needlessly confusing, and it should not be changed.

    19 vote(s)
    32.2%
  5. Cancel, I don't even know what a white scroll is

    6 vote(s)
    10.2%
  1. OP
    OP
    -ovv
    Online

    -ovv Horntail

    2,292
    914
    500
    Feb 23, 2020
    Male
    12:05 PM
    -ovv
    Beginner
    200
    Honor
    I think your solution would better articulate the series of actions being taken. However, I think there is also a big issue in the poorly designed user interface not being consistent with the user experience in the rest of the game. In the rest of the game, the button next to the yes/confirm button is the no/cancel/back button. In the case of the White Scroll prompt, there are two buttons which trigger a forward action (1. use scroll, use white scroll, 2. use scroll, don't use white scroll) and a third which returns the prompt backwards (don't use scroll, don't use white scroll).

    The poor design is that the forward action is in the spot where a backwards/cancel button would usually be, and a single-word response does not clearly implicate the actions that will be taken.

    Here's an example of NPC UI that has more than one set of responses and actions.
    upload_2023-3-29_22-5-34.png

    Now here's an example of a follow up prompt that has the same UI design as the White Scroll prompt.

    upload_2023-3-29_22-6-43.png

    However, this one is designed so that clicking "No" basically terminates all forward progress/action, resulting in no unintended consequences. I think it's safe to say an overwhelming majority of NPC interactions in this game are similar to this, where the NO response will yield no forward progress.

    The White Scroll prompt has two forward action responses, but it's designed like the one above.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2023
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  2. Alyosha
    Offline

    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

    941
    741
    413
    Mar 9, 2017
    12:05 PM
    Dostoevsky
    Dark Knight
    200
    Spirit
    For the system as a whole I don't think that it was necessarily correct to add another button(cancel) as it would have been to replace the 'no' option with 'cancel' instead. Current Legendary Spirit is miles ahead of what it once was, but it can still be perfected with the removal of 'no'.

    It probably isn't right for the thread to call it confusing though, the system is all very clear but there's a very human element in making mistakes with it. For most folks the use of White Scrolls on their potentially perfect items is a high pressure situation, it is the accumulation of countless nights of effort and your heart physically races because of how much value we put on the consequences and results. My own time scrolling a weapon was some of the most tense minutes of my playtime, and I very nearly forgot to buy a White Scroll in one session. I don't think people make mistakes because it is confusing, I think it's because people perform poorly under pressure and make unintended mistakes, and it would be an improvement to remove one of the avenues to making those mistakes.

    The 'no' button, as it currently functions, accomplishes one of two things for the player:
    1: Scrolls an item with White Scrolls currently in their inventory without using them
    2: Misclick and potentially ruin your item

    With the cash shop workaround accomplishing the intended mechanic of the button, I believe that the 'no' button cannot justify being kept in the game, as it only causes mistakes in the heat of the moment. It would be better to remove the 'no' and replace the prompt with something that says: "Would you like to use a White Scroll? Cancel to end scrolling. Store White Scrolls you don't wish to use in the Cash Shop".
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Nightz
    Online

    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

    1,823
    1,050
    490
    Oct 22, 2020
    Male
    9:05 PM
    Nightz
    I/L Arch Mage
    200
    Funk & Pasta
    Moderator Post
    To answer your question, this is what pressing keys on your keyboard default to when the prompt is open:
    • ESC: Functions as the CANCEL button
    • Enter: Functions as the YES button
    • Spacebar: Presses the button that is currently highlighted, which would be NO unless you've pressed TAB to cycle through the buttons
    This is how the UI works in maple, not specific to the WS prompt.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2023
    • Informative Informative x 2
  4. brunandes
    Offline

    brunandes Windraider

    466
    38
    296
    Aug 29, 2021
    3:05 AM
    Thanks for this. Based on this info, I would infer that there IS perhaps a possiblity for potential scuffing by pressing spacebar accidentally. Maybe the default option should be placed on YES?
     
  5. Nightz
    Online

    Nightz Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

    1,823
    1,050
    490
    Oct 22, 2020
    Male
    9:05 PM
    Nightz
    I/L Arch Mage
    200
    Funk & Pasta
    Moderator Post
    I agree, the ideal default highlighted button would be on Cancel for the Spacebar spasms.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. Esmo
    Offline

    Esmo Pac Pinky

    191
    6
    186
    Nov 8, 2019
    Male
    10:05 PM
    Esmo
    Beginner
    UpperLeveL
    just add 100% css scroll to the gachapon machine at the same odds of winning cs/ws
     
  7. beegoratto
    Offline

    beegoratto Zakum

    1,352
    381
    455
    Sep 22, 2021
    Male
    12:05 PM
    leetoratto
    Bowmaster
    1
    Nimbus
    This is technically better than a ws since there’s no need to use it on a pass.
     
  8. Pasta
    Offline

    Pasta Game Developer Staff Member Game Developer

    265
    255
    251
    Jul 18, 2017
    Male
    Pastaland
    9:05 PM
    Moderator Post
    Technically, an Ok/Cancel option similar to what an npc shop would provide is implicitly accepted the moment the scroll is dragged onto the item. The "Cancel" button in the current WS prompt was a way to add a means to back out of scrolling, in that same way.

    Removing the "No" option from the ws prompt would add the inconvenience of having to move white scrolls in and out of the inventory depending on what you're planning to scroll, as you would no longer be able to scroll anything without ws usage, while holding any.
    And because of that, it would add the risk factor of forgetting where your ws currently are, and dragging a scroll onto an item intended to be protected, while the protection is in the cash shop.

    What we could do is making this be a different selectable model of the prompt in the ini settings, which would then become something like:
    • WhiteScrollPrompt:
      • 0 = no extra prompt, original checkbox-only handling
      • 1 = Yes/No/Cancel prompt, current custom version
      • 2 = Yes/Cancel prompt, optimized version for pure ws scrolling
    How would this feel?

    On a side note, the spacebar triggering is something I wasn't aware of when initially designing the new prompt, so we will be looking into making that not be a thing.

    This change in any case will most likely not be present in the upcoming patch, but in one of the following ones.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  9. akashsky
    Online

    akashsky Horntail

    2,052
    856
    495
    Jun 10, 2017
    Male
    United States
    12:05 PM
    Disparity
    Corsair
    200
    Pasta
    One big consideration is also which setting you are going to make the default. Even if you add these extra options, there are a lot of players who are not aware of the functionality, so if in this case 1 is the default, we are still going to have the same issue. If we want to prevent players from themselves, the default mode should be the one that is most protective against human error, which I think is option 2.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. OP
    OP
    -ovv
    Online

    -ovv Horntail

    2,292
    914
    500
    Feb 23, 2020
    Male
    12:05 PM
    -ovv
    Beginner
    200
    Honor
    I think these implementations don't really take into consideration the perspective of an end user.

    While it might seem like a non-factor when play-testing from a developer's standpoint where there are virtually zero consequences to messing up, from the perspective of a player, it is a much larger ordeal. I bring this topic up because when I was scrolling, I almost made the same mental error in responding "No" as a means to terminate forward progress when I meant "Cancel". This is because I had the white scroll prompt up for awhile and had dissociated the previous action of scrolling from the action of using the white scroll itself. Sure, the action of having previously placed the scroll on the item has occurred by this point, but if I were to strictly answer the white scroll prompt, "No" would be an appropriate answer for two different results (1. No, I don't want to use a white scroll and wish to continue scrolling, 2. No, I don't want to use a white scroll and do not wish to continue scrolling). A Yes/No question with three different answers is terrible design.

    The prompt itself only asks if you want to use the white scroll or not while disassociating from the previous action of having used the scroll. In all other UI interactions in the game, the "No" response terminates forward progress resulting in no consequences, so even if there are three buttons (End Chat, Yes, No) there are still technically only two actions. In the case of white scroll usage, the "No" response still proceeds forward with an action for a total of three end results. This is the main problem.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2023
  11. Pasta
    Offline

    Pasta Game Developer Staff Member Game Developer

    265
    255
    251
    Jul 18, 2017
    Male
    Pastaland
    9:05 PM
    Moderator Post
    I'm not sure I'm understanding; the setting implementation change I proposed is made to include the original suggestion of the thread, by removing the No option and keeping the power of Cancel to fully abort the process, while at the same time leaving the current system for whoever prefers the three-buttons variant.
     
  12. OP
    OP
    -ovv
    Online

    -ovv Horntail

    2,292
    914
    500
    Feb 23, 2020
    Male
    12:05 PM
    -ovv
    Beginner
    200
    Honor
    Whoops I meant to quote only the first paragraph of your response.

    As for the three options suggestion, I feel like that further complicates the matter by offering an even broader range of experiences, which complicates peer to peer interactions. What happens if someone on one version gives inapplicable/erroneous information to someone else on a different version? Which setting is defaulted is also important, as Akash mentioned above.

    Personally, I think if you’re scrolling something without a white scroll in your inventory or if you unintentionally burn a white scroll because you carelessly scrolled without safely storing it, that’s 100% on you. IMO, making a mental mistake due to UI/UX inconsistencies seems a bit more to blame on bad design.

    A lot has been done over the past year to lower the quality of life on white scrolling. In the past, players could hold their white scrolls on mules and trade back for when they needed to use them. Now, players are faced with the dilemma of generating white scrolls and eating the cost of ws conversion tax if they have a high roll, or going through the npc one by one which increases the probability of making a mistake.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Pasta
    Offline

    Pasta Game Developer Staff Member Game Developer

    265
    255
    251
    Jul 18, 2017
    Male
    Pastaland
    9:05 PM
    Moderator Post
    The buttons across the different versions would maintain their same functionality; the only difference would be that one version still allows for scrolling without a ws with a third option. The only incorrect information that could be shared would be the existance of the No button, but even in that case, Cancel would allow resetting everything in case of confusion.
    Being the most protective one, as Akash mentioned, the new Yes/Cancel option would probably be the default.

    I see what you mean with the end user perspective, but I don't agree with the statement that it wasn't taken into consideration, as I feel that it evolves in a different topic. It sounds to me more about the wording of the prompt, rather than the design of its triple choice; if the question was "You're about to scroll <item>. Do you also want to apply a White Scroll?", and the options were [Cancel scrolling] [Don't use WS] [Use a WS], it would likely be harder to misinterpret.

    The current WS prompt only serves the purpose of solving issues due to the checkbox for WS usage giving problems both to players who forgot to tick it, and to players who forgot to untick it; with the added benefit of a way out of scrolling (Cancel), that wasn't an original part of its non-Legendary Spirit counterpart. The prompt itself only asks about WS confirmation, not as our design choice, but simply because drag-dropping a scroll in any situation was originally designed to not require confirmation of the intent.
    The dissociation between this prompt and the act of scrolling itself would require a preceding prompt that confirms the scrolling, in order to be consistent (naturally designed in a way that wouldn't just become obnoxious during every scrolling situation); by removing the No button, we're condensing two choices into one ("Do you want to scroll?" + "Do you want to use a WS?", while cutting out the case where the answers are respectively Yes and No). This adds a forced need to store WS away whenever you want to scroll anything without them; while many players already likely do it regardless, making it become mandatory for everyone feels excessive, which is why I was proposing to keep both options available.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. OP
    OP
    -ovv
    Online

    -ovv Horntail

    2,292
    914
    500
    Feb 23, 2020
    Male
    12:05 PM
    -ovv
    Beginner
    200
    Honor
    I agree that the buttons leading to action can be better worded to clearly indicate your choices. That would be much cleaner design and re-associate the action of scrolling with the white scroll usage.

    In every other interaction in this game -- and even in interactions with UI outside of the game -- the "No" button is universally understood as a full stop. There are some shitty cases where "No" as a means to proceed forward often takes advantage of the user into performing undesired actions - like downloading bloatware or buying additional items. In the user's experience, clicking "No" usually means halting progress, so they instead click "Yes" and might agree to things they normally wouldn't.

    In the case of the current white scroll prompt, "No" being a forward action might not translate well to many people who have been trained to believe "No" means stopping.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. Alyosha
    Offline

    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

    941
    741
    413
    Mar 9, 2017
    12:05 PM
    Dostoevsky
    Dark Knight
    200
    Spirit
    Bump before the list of items that die and mentals boomed grows
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  16. Kimmy
    Online

    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

    10,968
    10,997
    551
    Sep 9, 2014
    9:05 PM
    Moderator Post
    We kind of forgot to mention it in the client edit logs, but spacebar will no longer trigger a "YES" which should prevent another 9/10 of the mistakes.
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Pasta
    Offline

    Pasta Game Developer Staff Member Game Developer

    265
    255
    251
    Jul 18, 2017
    Male
    Pastaland
    9:05 PM
    Moderator Post
    Will move this to Accepted. The WS prompt will be redesigned for better clarity as to what each option's outcome will be, and will include a more descriptive question.
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 3
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. beegoratto
    Offline

    beegoratto Zakum

    1,352
    381
    455
    Sep 22, 2021
    Male
    12:05 PM
    leetoratto
    Bowmaster
    1
    Nimbus
    While I'm not upset this is happening, and I think it's probably for the best, I still think it's hilarious that this is needed
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  19. OP
    OP
    -ovv
    Online

    -ovv Horntail

    2,292
    914
    500
    Feb 23, 2020
    Male
    12:05 PM
    -ovv
    Beginner
    200
    Honor
    Bumping every time a high ticket item dies to ws prompt misinterpretation.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  20. beegoratto
    Offline

    beegoratto Zakum

    1,352
    381
    455
    Sep 22, 2021
    Male
    12:05 PM
    leetoratto
    Bowmaster
    1
    Nimbus
    • Like Like x 1
    • Great Work Great Work x 1

Share This Page