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Lets talk about Heroes.

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Autoassemble, Sep 10, 2017.

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  1. Sucre
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    Sucre Zakum

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    No, you don't. It's completely optional.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. hsmule5430
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    hsmule5430 Slimy

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    the only thing i agree with is rage being buffed to 20att as cider
     
  3. xadra
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    xadra Capt. Latanica

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    Completely optional but I'd personally recommend it to allow Bigfoot/Anego earlier
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  4. OP
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    Autoassemble
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    Autoassemble Selkie Jr.

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    I will answer a bit out of order for it to make better sense.

    First off, I did not claim that it would be realistically achievable only that IF you managed to get those items (dont think the extra 10 dex on bottom is gonna make a huge dent, but the shield is important obviously) then RK would end up being slightly better.

    You are right, of course. ST flat out wins due to the near impossibility of ever getting a 30 att shield, and even if you somehow manage to do it, it will not be a significant advantage.

    You also mention that the calculations I used was done with Royals special +5 items, and you say that w.att scales better with 2h (which would give an advantage to the ST in the royals calculations over the ones for legends)

    Finally I need to say that I agree with you that it would be absolutely crazy to go 1h hero in legends, but is that how it should be? Why should striving for perfection on a total of 17 slots compared to 7 not be rewarded with better damage? I think it should, but that is just my humble opinion and I leave the decision to the powers that be.
     
  5. Sucre
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    Sucre Zakum

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    Agreed, nerf 2h hero damage then ;)
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  6. Hyoon
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    Hyoon Zakum Retired Staff

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    You also have to realize that the big gap comes specifically when you have SI (25-30 weapon attack difference).
    Without SI theres a very small difference (Could possibly be made up with a pure STR robe, of 4-7 attack).

    However if you're striving for perfection, then an SI mule to follow you 100% everywhere is not that hard.
    Since as you can see a lot of top NightLords have their own SE mules.

    Ontop of that bigfoots (which is your primary EXP for a long time), is horrible with RK's speed and probably slows you down more.
     
  7. boldaslove
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    boldaslove Dark Stone Golem

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    Don't trust him he's a DrK,,,,,,


    Enrage:

    Both Enrage and Rage being useless is kind of sad when you consider Paladin have almost ALL useful skills in 4th job compared to Hero who is done with SP after 150. I think a passive Enrage for 4th is par for the course along with 10 sec HH for Pally among other things for fellow melee classes who aren't warriors (*cough bstep boost*).
    --Passive Enrage gives Hero something to think about before 'do I max Rush or Achilles'.
    --Passive Enrage is a buff that isn't direct to any skills and it matches things like Marksman boost.
    --If the cool down is eliminated only, then its still another useless skill like rage would be at bossing. **Enrage must be passive to be meaningful.** A second rage won't solve the rage problem.. let alone one with a cool down in the hard-earned warrior 4th job.

    Rage
    20 Atk Rage simply makes warriors appealing to grind with but it doesn't change anything with bossing as KimberlyKimberly pointed out and I think that's okay. I don't think Rage should = Cider to cancel out Cider; instead I think stocking inventory is a part of Maple. I think it should be changed because its yet another useless Hero skill.

    My thoughts on Hero overall:
    Hero are the low maintenance bulky attacker who will always be there for you when your s/o is being a bitch. That being said, it's very good at this job.
    Hero doesn't need to change much to stay with the times however it is held back by useless skills and it isn't the most appealing class because low brandish % makes gear feel less meaningful and weapon selection is fairly meh compared to others using lv110 or even 120 weapons in the case of Paladins.
    Hero should be the premier solo melee class as the bulk and low maintenance make it ideal for this role. To supplement this autonomy, buffs to Enrage and Rage to make training and bossing more simple.
    If other routes other than Enrage + Rage changes as suggested, Brandish % or formula could be changed to make it react to gear / wep atk in a more meaningful way.

    hero is ol faithful but as it moves into a solo role buffs should be used to compliment this role
     
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  8. Sucre
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    Sucre Zakum

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    >Has the easiest bossing because you can just afk and attack without requiring wash and without risk
    >Has one of the highest damages without requiring good gear as compared to other jobs
    >Complains asking for buffs to make it easier and stronger

    [​IMG]
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
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  9. boldaslove
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    boldaslove Dark Stone Golem

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    siq memes

    no hero is asking for a revamp, just some slight changes.

    this next point is huge: decent damage without much gear initially - 100% true, but this is because ACA is a huge jump, not because brandish % dmg is so high. without ACA brandish dmg is laughably weak considering its equal to power strike which as you know is a first job skill.

    it's ACA not brandish that makes a hero decent, and it isn't gear either. after ACA its actually pretty tough to increase your dmg as a hero.

    low % dmg on brandish makes gear feel irrelevant. after about 30k/30k dmg the low % dmg is almost like a soft cap. no matter how much gear I get the dmg just won't respond b/c brandish % is low. same gear to a pally = makes a huge difference.

    anyone who plays the job knows these things. my suggestions were to bolster our role as bulky solo attackers and relieve the class of some useless skills.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
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  10. Franco
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    Franco Wolfspider

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    I meme about heroes all the time, trust me AutoassembleAutoassemble knows but the their damage isn't bad, heroes in general tend to outdamage shads and drk/pali. They don't need a buff so please stop pushing for one. When you hear of a perfect weapon hero getting outdamaged by a shadower then we can talk about buffs, pretty sure most heroes have shit gear.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  11. Hyuga
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    Hyuga Mr. Anchor

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    People need to stop comparing hero to shadowers...literally the only bosses shadowers excel at are zak arms and the main phase of HT.
    It is also silly to compare avg geared heroes to the best geared shad of the server at the best possible scenario for shad.
    If you want a quick top of the head list of what heroes are better at vs shad:

    Bf
    Zak
    Scar/Targa
    HT Preheads

    Smokescreen is the only thing that makes shad wanted in a pt even after our buffs, this honestly shouldnt be used as comparison for heroes to get a buff since heroes simply outclass shads at everything apart from HT and grinding.

    I can't agree with this more, compare a perfect geared hero to a perfect geared shad and i'm confident that the hero will end up on top (dpm wise).

    If anything, heroes dont need a buff; NL's need a nerf....right FrancoFranco ? :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
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  12. Stance88
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    Stance88 Dark Stone Golem

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    Hero's always outdmg drk/shad when equally geared and in general shad no matter what. Has always been that way and it doesn't change just because of buffs to boomerang step or drk having more % hp for zerk. Dmg calculations are overrated. They never take into account damage recieved or knockbacks. Chill. Hero is OP ~~
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Franco
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    Franco Wolfspider

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    Get out of here with your nerf talk BibleThump
     
  14. Stance88
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    Stance88 Dark Stone Golem

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    The last nail to the coffin. You are complaining about a >>2nd job<< skill that is not good in 4th job. Do you know how much struggle CB's had in 3rd job using SB as main dps because it outdpsed Assaulter? They didn't complain. Stop this hilarious sob story, it's a 2nd job skill. It's not supposed to be awesome in 4th job!?!?! Just stock ciders like everyone else. You are not being treated unfairly. Hero is as good a melee in this game as it gets. Don't need elementals, tons of HP. PG+Achilles reduces physical touch dmg by 47%. Your one and only attack skill is a 3x aoe hit.

    Adios
     
  15. Hyoon
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    Hyoon Zakum Retired Staff

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    People often compare shads to marisa, however i know for a fact that marisa gears are top tier and its fairly hard to compare to other melees as just from looking none of the current heros or shadowers have as good of gear as she does (comparatively).

    That would be comparing franco who has near perfect gear (perfect claw) to a average funded nightlord.

    I've played a hero before with buffs to other melee classes before, and none of the other classes even came close to my damage.

    Paladins did get a buff, however you have to realize that their main damage is single target while heros consistently hit 3 with their consistent damage source.

    So until i see a hero who can compare to the top melees in gear, i doubt this comparison atm is valid.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  16. Rasenganjedi
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    Rasenganjedi Slimy

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    Can we talk about bucc buffs plz SlimeSad
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Chew
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    Chew Headless Horseman

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    Tbh Neckson should have just went with 3% weapon attack buff for rage.. Would have been the slight buff they intended and they could have avoided the problems with attack potions
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  18. Hyoon
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    Hyoon Zakum Retired Staff

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    So give them a pseudo echo?
     
  19. AGGrey
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    AGGrey Chronos

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    Shut down this post so @boldislove stops complaining. Hero is fine as is. End post
     
  20. OP
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    Autoassemble
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    Autoassemble Selkie Jr.

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    Reformatted main post since people clearly misunderstood that this thread was meant to be a 1h vs 2h hero comparison with a possible suggested solution as well as some general QoL changes that people suggested along the way.
    Let me re-iterate:
    * Lvl 70 sword (for 1h heroes) being the best endgame weapon is silly.
    * 1h heroes have to perfect 17 slots and currently gain very little (or realistically no) advantage over 2h at only 7 slots.
     
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