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Information November 2023 Balance Changes [Explained]

Discussion in 'Update Notes' started by Nise, Nov 26, 2023.

  1. Domingezz
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    Domingezz Blue Snail

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    7:29 PM
    i dont quit get why it is a no-go. right now a clean perfect ele staff costs around 500k at most, an avrage lvl 70 ele wand will cost 5 times as much. right now the vast majority of mages are luckless, and most of the luck mages are lvl 8-50 and are only putting ap in luck because its their first char here and don't know.
    with the addition of the changes making tma more impactful for mages, it will only get more one sided and most mage equipment will become even more useless than before.
    feels like in terms of popularity of playmethod it is not a balance change but rather an un-balance change.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. yurain
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    yurain Windraider

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    1:29 AM
    YUrain
    I/L Wizard
    55
    Too much math on the mage part, can't process it for now.

    For cwkpq without skill and 100 ms/jump, I doubt the top right 8 boxes is clearable for 4 man run.
    For apq, this is helped by having each player spawn in their desginated spot. Before that the are randomly spawned, and the NLs would tend to be the ones jumping away.
    This will just scuff any cwk bonus so hard.

    Also a bit surprised at the low number of Marksman players around. Indeed matching the feel of being PB or nothing.
    Time to beat the drum for a marksman buff eh.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 5
  3. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    1:29 AM
    unless the entry is in the middle of the map.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  4. OP
    OP
    Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    2:29 AM
    NoraONE
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    Approaches need to be fine tweaked, rather than drastic. While you're looking at the potential gains for ele staffs and how they'll gain value. With winners there's losers. Gear that people already invested billions into maybe could become a 1/10th of their price (overexaggerating of course). People already have a problem with inflation IRL where their finances are worth around 7% less than what they were a year ago. If all your net assets dropped by 90% over the course of a single patch, that's really painful for a lot of people.

    Huge shifts would also make it harder for us to change things in the future should we feel the need to. So let's say (knock on wood) we have to revert the change. If people people sold their "now worthless" ele wands for ele staffs, and we revert. They'll re-sell their ele staffs to buy ele wands. Losing out more money in the process and making the economy also far less certain.

    However, the benefit of these type of formula reworks is that once its coded in and supported, it becomes much easier for us to finetune things into the future. Perhaps lowering the INT reward gain, increasing back the damage you get from leveling, adding a LUK component to the formula, etc.

    So think of the changes as more far-sighted~ Hope that explains things better!
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  5. ryanlights
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    ryanlights Windraider

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    12:29 PM
    Dark Knight, Bowmaster
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    Prestigious
    Just flood the market with brand new Elemental Staff via the new patch? Make them even more accessible.
     
  6. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    1:29 AM
    I think WS/CS were cheap years ago and now 300m+. People back then experienced 100% gain in assets over the course of a year.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Tommygunner
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    Tommygunner Mixed Golem

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    Oct 29, 2020
    12:29 PM
    yah to be honest, i agree.

    i was just saying some people were overreacting for 4-man boxes. Saying nerfing NL is the same as nerfing everyone: it's the same roundabout logic of people that complained alchemist rework was "nerf for everyone" because PB would simply take longer to clear and everyone will have to eat more apple. it just evens the playing field for NLs and makes NLs less crucial for runs
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Oradious
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    Oradious Mr. Anchor

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    1:29 AM
    Oradious
    F/P Arch Mage, Gunslinger, Buccaneer
    200
    Pasta
    Someone explain to me how CWKPQ is not afk. The only thing I have to worry about is re-puppeting every 1min as an Archer. If you find it hard to execute/organise it probably means you are doing something incorrectly.

    While I may not agree with the change to bonus stage, I think it opens up new possibilities for innovations, such as having a 2nd character on a VM and then bypassing a 2nd keyboard into the VM. That way you can control 2 characters at once in the bonus stage. Using this, it was possible to break 14-15 boxes in the old CWKPQ. Surely 10 is doable with enough practice after this patch.

    Also, if you're hitting left/right you're doing it wrong. The trick is to get a fast 5 snowboard/surfboard/fishing pole and stand at a spot where you can hit 2 boxes at once.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Creative Creative x 1
  9. yurain
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    yurain Windraider

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    1:29 AM
    YUrain
    I/L Wizard
    55
    Anyone can explain to me how is works?
    I am a LUK mage, so I am going to see a shitton lower TMA when I logged once the patch is live?
    Because I have like 5X LUK, so it is going to count me as 10 levels where I didn't add 5th INT, thus I suffer 10x "decrease skill damage"?
    Or it is gonna count as 50 levels where I didn't add 5th INT, thus I can just delete my character LOL.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. TORONTOTOKYO
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    TORONTOTOKYO Windraider

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    1:29 AM
    breakeven point is 1550tma
     
  11. yurain
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    yurain Windraider

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    YUrain
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    I understand on the TMA part. But the 5th AP into INT, seems like a seperate thing wrt the TMA formula?
     
  12. Tobi3
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    Tobi3 Slime

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    9:29 AM
    Your TMA won't change. Damage will be based on your TMA and level, and only applies to specific 4th job skills. Lukless mages naturally have more TMA than luk mages, and the new formula makes the damage inequality a bit wider.

    '5th main INT' means that if you level up without also finding a way to +5 TMA, you will lose damage on your skill. Generally, when you level, you increase TMA by adding int. If you do 5000 with CL at level 120, and you level up to 121 without adding your stats to int, you will do less than 5000 with the same skill.
     
  13. Emptty
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    Emptty Blue Snail

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    Oct 8, 2023
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    12:29 PM
    Emptty
    Paladin
    Those new change are dumb they are less ppl that are fund you just give advantage to player again who are already funds and kill all player who dont have time to got a 2nd job on ML you should switch adavantage to attacker aswell all base on gear!!! even with a 1.5b build you dont reach what u guys showing do you know how long it take in leech time to get there lol killing the server once again gg
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  14. Tobi3
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    Tobi3 Slime

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    9:29 AM
    Base int is the direct result of levelling. TMA - base int is probably the variable you want to scale on. It also might not be so absurd to make luk and lukless mages more equal in dpm at very high levels.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2023
  15. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    How many of these supposed luk mage mains have enough data points and dpm records to even compare how much they’ve gotten nerfed after patch goes live? :^)
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. Tobi3
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    Tobi3 Slime

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    I think the principle here is that it shouldn't favour just end game / min-maxing. If you have good gear, then you're set for the whole trip to 200. But for many more casual players, that's not the case.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    This is true for every other class in the game.
     
  18. Tobi3
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    Tobi3 Slime

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    sure, but we're talking about this current balance change. Why this change, you know?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    I think you’re conflating two different arguments here. Luk mages becoming less effective due to changes is a valid concern, but ungeared mages doing comparable damage as those heavily funded never made sense which is what this change targeted.

    My suggestion is that LUK mages, if they feel misrepresented, should band together and advocate for some LUK mage buffs in a separate suggestion thread rather than shitting on what is largely a win for the mage class. IMO it’d be more effective rather than trying to polarize the two camps.
     
  20. Tobi3
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    Tobi3 Slime

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    It's not about luk mages specifically. It's about the sense of progression, that you share with your peers in ML. There are other goofy builds that are kind of decimated by this formula.
     

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