1. Hello!

    First of all, welcome to MapleLegends! You are currently viewing the forums as a guest, so you can only view the first post of every topic. We highly recommend registering so you can be part of our community.

    By registering to our forums you can introduce yourself and make your first friends, talk in the shoutbox, contribute, and much more!

    This process only takes a few minutes and you can always decide to lurk even after!

    - MapleLegends Administration-
  2. Experiencing disconnecting after inserting your login info? Make sure you are on the latest MapleLegends version. The current latest version is found by clicking here.
    Dismiss Notice

[Poll] Balance changes: Meeting Expectations or Falling Short?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Vowels, Sep 11, 2023.

Did the recent balance changes meet your expectations?

  1. Exceeded Expectations

    23 vote(s)
    21.7%
  2. Met Expectations

    17 vote(s)
    16.0%
  3. Fell Short of Expectations

    31 vote(s)
    29.2%
  4. Didn't Have Expectations

    35 vote(s)
    33.0%
  1. beegoratto
    Offline

    beegoratto Zakum

    1,306
    366
    455
    Sep 22, 2021
    Male
    1:16 AM
    leetoratto
    Bowmaster
    1
    Nimbus
    it's almost like the difference between the two is more than one-dimensional
     
  2. fartsy
    Online

    fartsy Zakum

    1,337
    790
    471
    Jun 29, 2017
    Male
    3:16 AM
    Fartsy
    F/P Wizard
    Pasta
    upload_2023-9-11_14-29-57.png
     
    • Informative Informative x 17
    • Great Work Great Work x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  3. icymcspicy
    Offline

    icymcspicy Slime

    18
    4
    30
    Apr 27, 2020
    Male
    4:16 PM
    Bobonaut
    Was expecting more discourse about roar nerf and more state of economy threads. How did we end up with so many threads about NL and buccs lul
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  4. beegoratto
    Offline

    beegoratto Zakum

    1,306
    366
    455
    Sep 22, 2021
    Male
    1:16 AM
    leetoratto
    Bowmaster
    1
    Nimbus
    some groups are louder than others
     
  5. CaptainNemo
    Online

    CaptainNemo Selkie Jr.

    216
    172
    215
    Oct 3, 2017
    Male
    1:16 AM
    CaptainNemo
    Islander
    Ossyrians
    Something about squeaky wheels and grease. I'm just glad roar has finally been addressed, anyone attempting to claim it wasn't/isn't an issue is lying to themselves.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. fartsy
    Online

    fartsy Zakum

    1,337
    790
    471
    Jun 29, 2017
    Male
    3:16 AM
    Fartsy
    F/P Wizard
    Pasta
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Creative Creative x 1
  7. beegoratto
    Offline

    beegoratto Zakum

    1,306
    366
    455
    Sep 22, 2021
    Male
    1:16 AM
    leetoratto
    Bowmaster
    1
    Nimbus
    First they came for the mages, but the DrKs did not speak up for they were not mages. Next they came for the Sairs, but the DrKs did not speak up for they were not sairs. Then, they came for the Night Lords, but the DrKs did not speak up for they were not Night Lords. Finally, they came for the DrKs, and there was nobody left to speak up for them.
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  8. pharaoh
    Offline

    pharaoh Master Chronos

    96
    52
    116
    Mar 30, 2020
    Male
    4:16 AM
    Radiologist
    Marksman
    200
    Beaters
    Definitely agree that the BT's intention is in the right place and obviously they deserve credit for the work they're doing without compensation. That said, I disagree that there's anything wrong with criticism if it's constructive. Unfortunately a lot of the time it comes across as whining/complaining without substance.

    I think the NL nerf was justified and long overdue but respectfully, it's honestly not an impactful nerf. At best, this change mainly affects 30 man PB groups that will have to use a few extra apples now and reduce their profits as a whole. The effect it has to an individual NL player is significantly less. It looks like the direction the BT is taking with regard to the recent NL nerfs (recharge costs, effectiveness of alchemist etc.) seems to be to increase the cost of playing an NL rather than actually nerfing the class in some meaningful way (lowering damage, mobility, avoid/shifter, etc.), which to me sounds like it hurts newer NLs and cements it as a class that you make once you're funded even more than it already is in the current meta. I'd rather see changes go toward increasing skill expression in some way than to make them more expensive, this kind of change just feels lazy to me. But maybe this is the start of more changes down the road? As of this patch, they remain overtuned and need a meaningful nerf (and this is coming from a NL main).

    Secondly, I feel that not enough attention is paid by the BT to other overtuned classes, namely buccaneers. They offer very high damage (slightly under NL and corsair and on par with other ranged classes while being much easier to wash), while having some of the best utility skills in the game, low potion costs, and are essentially required at certain end game bosses such as Pink Bean and Auf. Even the change disguised as "making male and female buccs equal" was implemented in a way that buffed male buccs rather than nerfing the female counterpart. The other "nerf" they received recently was mainly a nerf on TL mules and PB groups as whole, but wouldn't necessarily negatively affect a bucc playing solo. What disadvantages are there to playing a bucc? At the moment, there's really none.

    There are also a few underwhelming classes that could use important QoL buffs. I'm glad we care so much about buccaneer hitboxes, but when are we going to do something about MMs not being able to pin pirate boss in CWK without an SI mule ever since the initial aggro changes of 2021? They're essentially locked out of an important piece of content if they don't make a 4th job mule, whereas their archer counterpart can pin with their eyes closed using hamstring. I've never seen any staff acknowledge this concern the numerous times I've brought it up on the forums. I assume it's because none of them have played an MM but regardless, this is just one example based on a class that I have experience with. I'm sure there are many other neglected classes out there.

    Again just to clarify, I am grateful for the work volunteers put in to improve the balance of this game and am just offering feedback from an alternative perspective as certain classes will inevitably be over or underrepresented on their team, or some that may not even really play this game. Some of the changes are great and I have nothing to offer (summer event, drop rate changes, HP challenges, etc.).

    I guess I probably should have posted this on the main balance thread but I'm sure staff will be reading both anyway.
     
    • Agree Agree x 12
    • Like Like x 6
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  9. beegoratto
    Offline

    beegoratto Zakum

    1,306
    366
    455
    Sep 22, 2021
    Male
    1:16 AM
    leetoratto
    Bowmaster
    1
    Nimbus
    This thread is way better. Main balance thread lacks shitposting. Great takes btw.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. Alyosha
    Online

    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

    933
    673
    413
    Mar 9, 2017
    1:16 AM
    Dostoevsky
    Dark Knight
    200
    Spirit
    Why would DK farmers complain about Roar nerf when they can simply use Pole Arm Fury instead
     
  11. brunandes
    Offline

    brunandes Windraider

    466
    38
    296
    Aug 29, 2021
    4:16 PM
    Maybe their thinking is that by hurting newer NLs less will get into the endgame meta where they still shine? No idea. Totally agree that there are so many more important balance issues but somehow are not at the forefront.
     
  12. lv1crook
    Offline

    lv1crook Capt. Latanica

    354
    187
    278
    Jan 19, 2021
    Male
    1:16 AM
    Level1Crook
    Corsair
    1
    Flow
    Library still doesn’t have updated NLC pot prices so it’s hard to compare (of course) but with double healing from cherry pies and barbs they should be pretty viable compared to ginseng and honster throughout most of your career if you’re mildly washed. By the point you’re super endgame then you should be strong anyway so what’s the big deal.

    If anything NL is just beginning to reach a balanced state. A couple more nerfs aren’t even out of the question. The class is still so blessed at basically every stage of the game I don’t think people realize
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  13. rambo
    Offline

    rambo Pink Teddy

    70
    11
    81
    Apr 13, 2020
    Male
    4:16 PM
    21blvck
    Nobody gave a shit about corsair until Akash came up with the avoid meta btw. And to match or surpass the dmg output by NLs, they have to prepare a different set of overalls, shoes,and keep an eye out for their boat health. Not to mention the pots expenditure because they have horrible avoid, compared to NL's pot cost lol
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Lirbo
    Offline

    Lirbo Slimy

    237
    62
    235
    Feb 18, 2017
    Male
    11:16 AM
    Kiss/Ciss/Qiss
    Night Lord
    188
    ⚔️ Beaters
    I'm not saying that Corsair damage comes without efforts. However, again - this isn't about Sairs but Night Lords.
    What I'm saying is that in the current state, whatever Night Lords are capable of doing, can be done better by another class (save for mobility).
    As for raw damage, those are indeed Sairs who dominated this area (again, I'm not complaining about that), but at least we had the edge of ATT pot duration to aid the party in certain bosses with longer durations so we were able to compete and be on a similar level.
    Night Lords are now in the position that if you want damage you should simply go sair (or even paladin in some cases), if you want to be tanky, untouchable, and provide utility you should go shad/bucc (or bowmen for utility alone). If you want to be a farmer you go shad/warrior/mage... You get the point. Night Lords lost their edge. I see no reason why should any new player make a Night Lord in their current state when there are so many better options.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  15. -ovv
    Offline

    -ovv Horntail

    2,280
    904
    500
    Feb 23, 2020
    Male
    1:16 AM
    -ovv
    Beginner
    200
    Honor
    Yeah man, night lords are so shit now, we night lords should all just quit because we don't have longer pot duration anymore. So unfair. We are the most oppressed class in the game. How are we supposed to get invited to runs anymore when we don't have the edge of an additional 2.5 minutes of apples compared to every other class? I can't believe they've done this.
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 8
  16. Lirbo
    Offline

    Lirbo Slimy

    237
    62
    235
    Feb 18, 2017
    Male
    11:16 AM
    Kiss/Ciss/Qiss
    Night Lord
    188
    ⚔️ Beaters
    I'm not saying everyone should quit the class. But I've had enough of the community unjustified hate towards Night Lords.
    I'm sick of opening Balance Changes every event because I simply know they're just eager to deliver another nerf.

    Actually, it's kinda funny, if you look at any other class in the game, they have all got buffed, some far more than others.
    However, when you look at Night Lords, all they got is nerfs (other than the MTK changes). Not to mention most of these nerfs were significant.
    Shadow Claw was patched, star recharge prices doubled, alchemist being halved, and then completely deleted.

    MapleLegends NL class is far weaker than the original Maplestory's NL.

    Sorry, that's not why I made a Night Lord.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. -ovv
    Offline

    -ovv Horntail

    2,280
    904
    500
    Feb 23, 2020
    Male
    1:16 AM
    -ovv
    Beginner
    200
    Honor
    Quitting is not the nindo way.
     
  18. beegoratto
    Offline

    beegoratto Zakum

    1,306
    366
    455
    Sep 22, 2021
    Male
    1:16 AM
    leetoratto
    Bowmaster
    1
    Nimbus
    upload_2023-9-12_14-38-44.jpeg
    you know how in Mario kart sometimes people like playing monster karts that have high max speed and weight, but low acceleration and handling, but other people like nimble karts that are the opposite? Sometimes you make trade offs for strengths by picking up weaknesses. Night Lords might not have the raw damage as Sairs or the insane survivability of Shads, but do you know what they do have? The second best-in-class in both. Night Lords strength is they have no weaknesses in any single-target content. You literally cannot go wrong with having a Night Lord in either HT, PB, CWK, or BGA. Sure the MM has a great time in PB, but he’s miserable in CWK or BGA. The BM and Sair are happy in CWK but crying in PB. The Shad has no issues surviving Sed in PB but you’ll rarely find one in CWK or BGA.

    The trade off for NL is that you don’t make any trade offs.
     
    • Informative Informative x 4
    • Agree Agree x 3
  19. -ovv
    Offline

    -ovv Horntail

    2,280
    904
    500
    Feb 23, 2020
    Male
    1:16 AM
    -ovv
    Beginner
    200
    Honor
    In the world of Mario Tennis, where players choose from a roster of characters, much like ninjas in Naruto select their unique paths while adhering to their Nindo way, finding the right balance is essential. Just as in Naruto, where shinobi follow their individual philosophies, Mario Tennis players must navigate a diverse range of characters, each with distinct abilities and strengths.

    Mario Tennis boasts a wide array of characters, each excelling in various aspects of the game. Some characters are known for their powerful shots and agility, while others specialize in finesse and precision. Just as the Nara clan employs cunning strategy, and the Uchiha clan harnesses raw power, Mario Tennis players must select their characters wisely, staying true to their preferred playstyle.

    In the end, Mario Tennis thrives on its diversity and flexibility, allowing players to find their ideal balance between characters and playstyles. Whether you favor the power of certain characters or the finesse of others, it's about discovering your own path, aligning with your Nindo way in the gaming world, and finding the character balance that suits your Mario Tennis experience. Just as in Naruto, and in various games like Mario Tennis, it's all about creating a gaming journey that resonates with your unique preferences and objectives.

    Likewise, class balance in MapleLegends is all about how you want to have fun. Some people really enjoy not using more apples than others, whether through skimping or through built in mechanics like alchemist, and staff should be aware that this recent nerf goes directly against these types of players and their enjoyment for the game.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  20. fartsy
    Online

    fartsy Zakum

    1,337
    790
    471
    Jun 29, 2017
    Male
    3:16 AM
    Fartsy
    F/P Wizard
    Pasta
    pretty much every new item that comes to ML is effectively a NL buff. look at timeless claw or fs or auf helm. nl benefit disproportionately relative to other classes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1

Share This Page