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[Poll] Balance changes: Meeting Expectations or Falling Short?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Vowels, Sep 11, 2023.

Did the recent balance changes meet your expectations?

  1. Exceeded Expectations

    23 vote(s)
    21.7%
  2. Met Expectations

    17 vote(s)
    16.0%
  3. Fell Short of Expectations

    31 vote(s)
    29.2%
  4. Didn't Have Expectations

    35 vote(s)
    33.0%
  1. Vowels
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    Vowels Mr. Anchor

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    10:29 PM
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    hi maplelegends

    This is not about event just balance changes and your initial thoughts

    I wanna know how well the balance changes are aligned with what players were anticipating.

    • Exceeded Expectations: The changes exceeded my expectations; I'm pleasantly surprised.
    • Met Expectations: The changes met my expectations, and I'm satisfied with the outcome.
    • Fell Short of Expectations: The changes fell short of my expectations, and I'm somewhat disappointed.
    • Didn't Have Expectations: I didn't have specific expectations, so I can't say.

    That's it SlimePolice
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 2
    • Creative Creative x 1
  2. -ovv
    Online

    -ovv Horntail

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    -ovv
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    The balance changes Exceeded Expectations because balance changes typically result in some kind of nerf to my gameplay, but this change didn't. However, the balance changes Met Expectations because that is what I expected from these upcoming changes. So overall, I would say that these changes Fell Short of Expectations because I know other people were really hoping for more. I guess you can say that at the end of the day, I Didn't Have Expectations.
     
    • Informative x 4
    • Like x 1
    • Agree x 1
    • Great Work x 1
    • Useful x 1
    • Creative x 1
  3. pharaoh
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    pharaoh Master Chronos

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    9:29 PM
    Radiologist
    Marksman
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    I think the female buff hitbox should have been changed to the male one instead of the other way around so that it's a nerf instead of a buff.
     
    • Agree Agree x 9
  4. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    Happy to see some of the changes to actual player characters like +Base HP Rez, ST Hitbox fix, and Alchemist duration nerf

    Others pretty underwhelmed by. Rez % HP nerf hurts active Bishops more than mules which is pretty amusing. DK Roar drop nerf was expected but still potentially disappointing as I don't think this addresses DK farming unless the drop rate reductions were drastic. Would have liked to see more on the class balance front this patch, instead of mostly content balance.

    Content changes overall pretty disappointing. Most of them involve rarely run content to begin with and many of the changes are more of a net neutral than a buff, with the exception of Verga (good changes), Pap (good changes), and D1 (positive changes). Nice to see some polish with things like hitbox changes but overall pretty underwhelmed. Feels like endgame content is being more homogenized which kind of just pushes people to whatever is highest EV, which is sort of lame. I liked being able to make tradeoffs in EV for low reward low effort content which seems like that's no longer the case.

    3rd job levelling improvements are always nice to see, hopefully this means more SC books on the market as well.

    Disappointed to hear HP Challenges continue to follow the path of Attack on Titan (next patch: HP Challenges Final Season Part 3 Part 1 Chapter 1) but can't really criticize too much on this front because at least there's demonstratable effort.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Creative Creative x 1
  5. Mirrors
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    Mirrors Zakum Retired Staff

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    6:29 PM
    Mirrors
    WeenieHutJrs
    People are always so critical of balance changes honestly. I think they gave good justifications for all the changes made. Even if they didn't "meet your expectations" at the very least the intention is in the right place.

    Sometimes people ask way too much for a volunteer based balance team. I think even if it's not a lot it's a step in the right direction, and I do think that incremental changes in the right direction are better than nothing. People forget that these changes are done in conjunction with coding for the entirely revamped HP challenges (which seems to be much more complicated and in depth) and the summer event (which has imported a lot of new assets and music and npcs too).

    For me this patch had some great buffs to enhancing 3rd job grinding experience, which is one of the spots of leveling which is the most difficult. With the release of the HP challenges next patch, it makes sense that they'd add more places for 3rd jobbers to grind as fewer of them would buy leech hopefully.
     
    • Agree Agree x 11
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  6. GooBeR
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    GooBeR Master Chronos

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    Aug 29, 2021
    6:29 PM
    Kind of makes resurrection not useful until more points in the skill. The effects would only really matter on group content like zak/krex for low level Bishops. Once you are doing content where resurrection really matters like HT you should have res maxed and it wouldn't matter.

    If we look at the bishop skill path above, it would mean if you were a bossing bishop (zak specifically) you'd have to think of delaying Maple Warrior and Holy shield just so the person getting resurrected doesn't get perfect framed with 10% hp. Which is exactly what they were going for with these nerfs.

     
  7. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    Yes, it hurts active Bishops a lot because of this. A fresh 155 bishop will struggle to get all their SP in for HT.

    Meanwhile a rez mule doesn't care because afk buyers are supposed to die anyways.
     
  8. GooBeR
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    GooBeR Master Chronos

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    Not if they follow my skill point guide. New bishops probably shouldn't be doing HT until 155 because their health is too low.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  9. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    Hmm I personally disagree, I think a skilled Bishop is fine even at 3.5k HP which most 155+ Bishops have, but to each their own.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    6:29 PM
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    Poll needs our baseline expectations to be accurate. My expectations were low so it was difficult for them not to be exceeded. If you think that they fell short then your expectations were naive in how high they were. As a professional whinger, I have found very little to whinge about and see pretty well everything as a positive change, which is a positive change from most patches. Only thing that could be improved on in balancing are the addition of reversions to stuff that didn't really have the desired impact, like bubble being needed for Time Leap.

    Bishop res works at level 1, it's now a skill issue. Timing res to attacks is something that's already done for mages and can be utilized for everyone until you have the SP.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Creative Creative x 1
  11. GooBeR
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    GooBeR Master Chronos

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    6:29 PM
    I never said a skilled bishop can't do HT at 155. You said they don't have enough SP for Res at horntail which is 155 and I say they do. They shouldn't be doing HT before 155, they don't have enough HP nor maxed required skills, which are Res10, Gen30, HS 30.
     
  12. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    They should be able to if they just have 1 point in Baha no? Not like Baha really helps that much for 12 man HT anyways.
     
  13. lv1crook
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    lv1crook Capt. Latanica

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    Would’ve liked to see one cool or meaningful class buff, seems like all we got were a bunch of minor nerfs and reworks. The rest are decent changes I guess but not super exciting.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. brunandes
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    brunandes Windraider

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    9:29 AM
    Wdym? They buffed MALE buccs.
     
  15. Gurk
    Online

    Gurk Headless Horseman

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    Hero, Bishop, Marksman, Shadower, Buccaneer, Corsair
    where is hero boof
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Cornwall
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    Cornwall Master Chronos

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    I hate when people just end up discussions with to each their own. Just elaborate on the response and let others counterargue. Gosh.

    And didnt meet my expectations btw, but to each their own.
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  17. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    I mean I just don't really see why a Bishop can't/shouldn't be running HT at 155. Their damage isn't important as most 10-12 mans struggle to find Bishops anyways, and many Bishops look forward to actually interesting bossing content in the levels before 155 and it's a big motivator for those looking to boss to keep pushing forward. Bishoping in HT at 155 is a great way to both build connections, learn the animations and nuances of the fight at a deeper level than you could as an attacker, and generally just improve your skills in the game. Baha is not needed, and the minimum HP requirement (3.5k) is something any Bishop who is washing, even late washing (starting 120+) should have no issues achieving by 155, especially with MB Ring, so it's trivial for Bishops to have the required HP and SP to run.

    There's no real reason to stop a Bishop who wants to learn and run at that level from running except for gatekeeping purposes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2023
  18. GooBeR
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    GooBeR Master Chronos

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    Nobody said they couldn't nor shouldn't.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    No need to gatekeep bishops to being 155. They can run 6mans probably into late 14X and still carry their weight.

    The runs were like 3-4man exp, and not just from the 200s, but also for the holybased reason of bishop not being at exp level
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 4
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  20. beegoratto
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    beegoratto Zakum

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    You're right, my brain is absolutely fried right now from being a degenerate on BG all day. Idk how I misread your posts not just once but twice in this thread.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Creative Creative x 1

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