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Potential Wipe / Bishop Changes Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by WEED_JESUS, Jul 23, 2016.

[SELECT ALL THAT APPLY] Hypothetically, what balance changes would you like to see made to bishops?

Poll closed Aug 6, 2016.
  1. Nerf Leech

    32.9%
  2. Nerf/Ban Self-Leech/Multi-Clienting

    28.8%
  3. Nerf Holy Symbol

    19.2%
  4. Balance Holy Symbol to Encourage Larger Parties

    57.5%
  5. Penalize Bishops for Using Elemental Wands (Nerf Luckless Bishops)

    30.1%
  6. Other [Post about it]

    5.5%
  7. None

    23.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. moopmoop
    Offline

    moopmoop Brown Teddy

    61
    114
    71
    Apr 18, 2015
    Male
    America's Hat
    7:26 AM
    MoopMoop
    Bowmaster
    137
    Demure
    Therefore no proof. No point made about these graphs is valid.
    AKA: Playing to your character's strength. Didn't really need my point to be restated, but thanks.
    While f/p may not be able to leech other characters, they now lvl faster and duo better than bish, and they can farm anywhere including things that aren't skeles (Can't say that for early lvl bish).
    Look I love a/m classes so much, they have their own strengths that give them worth over bishs, but I don't think a nerf to an okay class at best is the answer to any problems the game has.
     
  2. Lionheart
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    Lionheart Horntail

    2,073
    1,855
    546
    Apr 25, 2015
    Male
    Gotta catch em all...
    5:26 AM
    Lionheart
    F/P Arch Mage
    151
    Hogwarts
    Welp, I can see that point sailed clear over your head...

    It DID need to be "restated" because you point to bishops' low DPS as "proof" that they are balanced. The fact that they level extremely fast, level up other characters fast, and then still are extremely valuable on a boss run means there is basically no cons. No strengths and weaknesses. It's all strengths.

    And this I will have to restate a million times: it's not bishop that needs to be changed, but the HS mechanics that need to be tweaked, and leeching nerfed.
     
  3. Huiae
    Offline

    Huiae Headless Horseman

    886
    864
    386
    Aug 1, 2015
    Female
    Seoul, Korea
    9:26 PM
    Verdict
    Bishop
    WeenieHutJrs
    Selfleeching is slow enough now. (i know this sounds odd for you, but ask to ppls who is 160+. they agree on this, i bet.) compared with actual grinding/bossing.

    this reminds my KMS experience when they nerfed leech by this method :

    before : if bish kills a skele, bish gets 10000 exp, leech gets 1~5000 exp regarding leechs lvl. maximum sum exp is 15000.
    after : if bish kills a skele, bish gets 12500 exp, leech gets 1~2500 exp regarding leechs lvl. maximum sum exp is 15000.

    can you imagine what would happened after this patch?

    1. evil selfleechers got nerf and died. HOORAY!
    2. nobody "dare" tried to train priest, since 3rd job priests lvl is completely history of leech.
    3. attackers started to avoid duo with bish/mage, and find another attacker partner who is killing ratio is 1:1 with him/her. since "actual killing" became much more important. they started to see bish/mages as KSer of white exp, not pty member.
    4. since there's no priest (they're all extincted. rip) everybody started to use HS mule much more than before.
    5. bish/mages eph got buffed so they lvled much faster than before when they got grinding attacker partner.
    6. so life of attackers became much more harder. life of bish/mages became much more easier.


    .......they rollbacked after a month since nerf leeching made game much more weird than even before.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
  4. moopmoop
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    moopmoop Brown Teddy

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    7:26 AM
    MoopMoop
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    MapleF3 Did you really say that?
    The only thing that could be taken from that graph is you don't understand MMORPG balance. You took a single aspect of the game (exp/h) and showed that because one class has a big advantage in that category, that was why they were OP. Ignoring that this is a huge game with many aspects to it besides a who can level up the fastest shitfest. There are people that want to make mesos, people who want to hit big single target dmg, people who want to be useful to other and people who want to be solo players. Classes should not be entirely equal in all aspects as your graph showed, otherwise there is absolutely no point in having as many different classes as we do.

    Also i do agree hs may be a little op, but changing it will bring a worse outcome than you think.
    (and also yes, if tweaking hs so that an entire playstyle gets wiped from viability, that does count as a nerf to the class as a whole).

    PS. I apologize I'm coming off as a dick right now, I'm under the slight influence of alcohol.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Lionheart
    Offline

    Lionheart Horntail

    2,073
    1,855
    546
    Apr 25, 2015
    Male
    Gotta catch em all...
    5:26 AM
    Lionheart
    F/P Arch Mage
    151
    Hogwarts
    Orly?

    Bishops do this well.

    Not bishops, but leveled by bishops and supported by bishops in runs.

    Thaaaat's, bishops.

    Hm. I'm thinking of a class that does this well. Especially when a single player prefers to dual client. I wonder which class that is....

    Excuse me. If you actually looked closely at the graph instead of trying to nitpick every little detail to death because of your biases, you'd notice that none of the bars are entirely equal.

    The point of the graph was to demonstrate the difference between over the top imbalance and something simply being "the fastest". There are no numbers to plug in, because I couldn't be assed to do any calculations, and the only reason I put exp/hr was because this seemed to be the most appropriate thing, given that the rankings are dominated by bishops or those leeched by them... that, and it felt like I had to label the axes with something. :rolleyes:

    Good grief, this isn't a hard of a concept to follow. You can sit there and armchair philosophize how wonderfully perfectly balanced the imbalanced game is, meanwhile rankings, wealth, and player preference all blatantly stare you in the face contradicting you.

    Well anyway, think I've had enough of this. Ciao.

    CozyCozy Anyone will say everything slows down at 16x.... Needing 400m exp to level kind of does that.[/quote]
     
  6. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

    886
    864
    386
    Aug 1, 2015
    Female
    Seoul, Korea
    9:26 PM
    Verdict
    Bishop
    WeenieHutJrs
    no. their eph gaining by actual training overcomes selfleechs eph from that lvl range, since their dmg become decent by maxing their critical skills. i'm mentioning it.
    i'm talking about "absolute amount of exp per hour", not %/h.

    we're talking about "maplelegends" and your graph isn't "maplelegends"s data. but you're spreading ur logic from it. I can't see it more than "manipulated graph only to use".
    well, your logic is 100% right if that graph is "right". but...wrong graph. :(

    you need to gather proofs can support ur opinion, before saying ur opinion. w/o those, it sounds nothing more than "I hate bish, I hate selfleech. LF>nerf"

    would this be too much greed? - expecting well-plotted logic based on trustable proofs, and productive solution for it instead of braindead hate on specific class from unacceptable biased view.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Rockler
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    Rockler Mixed Golem

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    Jan 8, 2016
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    1:26 PM
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    I love this thread :)
     
    • Like Like x 5
  8. moopmoop
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    moopmoop Brown Teddy

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    7:26 AM
    MoopMoop
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    It's comments like these that make me realize why this argument is even a thing. "Why can't people see things from my perspective" is a really common thought among...well everyone. I'll admit I feel the same way, and really the thought process gets an argument nowhere fast.
    I'm going to agree with Cozy, with the incorrect graph you put forward and no proof to back it, I can see your perspective. Anything coming off that graph just kinda just sound like saying "Why do bishs get higher exp/h than me" when you actually have it better if you look at the math. At some point it seems like you just want everything you dislike nerfed, regardless of whether they deserve it or not.
     

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