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Re-balance CDs or buff other relevant content

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Grizzy, Aug 29, 2020.

  1. Cascades
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    Cascades Slime

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    No one is going to come to the table and be able to have a good discussion, if we don't agree something is a problem.

    Do you think it is an issue that the average player trains at the same spot for ~50 levels? That's the question.

    Folks aren't going to move from a spot if there isn't a better alternative. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest another map gets some light tweaks. People are literally creating meme threads for this level range.

    But, if you just want to have bad faith arguments from your high throne, arguing that "it's never been easier to level up" or that's "just how Maple always was", then we can all just move on. Not a productive discussion. One of the best benefits of MapleLegends is their light tweak rebalancing. Stop acting like its outrageous to do some tweaks. :pepe:
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  2. HeartOfGold
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    HeartOfGold Red Snail

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    You're a genius
     
  3. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Why did people grind from lvl 50-120 at mannequins when they were considered 'OP'? And not at CDs when they existed in its current form, exp-wise? These aren't bad faith arguments. These are questions grounded on reality, and they're direct parallels to the current situation with CDs.

    If people don't want to train at CDs, they should probably try training elsewhere and coming up with a strategy that yields better results. They buffed several different maps during the last big update and people have not caught wind of some of the big advantages. It's not the balance team's job to lead you guys there, and I hope they never do.

    Personally, if I found a spot, I wouldn't even want to tell other people. Because then word will spread and that map will start becoming crowded. See the issue now with 'meta' maps?

    Do we need to rebalance CDs? Probably. They should have higher avoid so that level 50s shouldn't be able to hit them.
     
  4. IHearColors
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    IHearColors Timer

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    On a personal level, I don't view it as that big of an issue. There is something cathartic about mindlessly grinding for a few hours at a time and averaging a level an hour until the latter half of third job is a pretty crazy rate. In terms of the purpose of the server existing as a platform to fuel our nostalgia and enjoying the unique 2D MMORPG that Maple had to offer, it definitely exists as an issue. The monotony of grinding at the same spot for 50 levels causes the game to feel a lot smaller than it actually is, boiling it down to moving from one meta spot to another until you're ready to boss. While this is the fault of the balancing issues persisting between the maps/mobs, there also seems to be the refusal among some players who don't wish to explore everything the game has to offer for the sake of "efficiency", ultimately that is a personal choice as not everyone plays a game the same way. As an extension to this, Shaolin is basically the only viable spot for 120+, but is this considered okay because those levels have other options such as bossing (which is usually better than grinding anyways) or should there be more options for 4th job as well?

    You're right with this statement, but creating a better alternative will only shift the meta to whatever is most optimal and doesn't exist as much of a solution. The issue doesn't boil down to grinding in the same spot for 50 levels, but rather believing that's the only spot because it is the best for leveling quickly. It's true that other places just can't compare to CDs, but some of those spots are still perfectly viable. Going to himes, gallos, squids, nintos, etc aren't as good, but its not like leveling at these places are downright impossible or even difficult for that matter. While the disparity of the exp/hp ratio between CDs and Deep Ludi is ludicrous (and should be balanced better to create even more viable grind spots), it is unrealistic to expect that all these maps will provide the same exp gain. Since one is bound to be better than the rest, people will flock to that map more than others.

    It's honestly true that leveling has never been easier and these forums give us access to a wealth of information that, while defining the potentially toxic meta, exists to assist players in coming up with strategies or methods of playing the game. Maybe you can define "easy leveling" by the sheer braindead nature of mannes before the nerf, whereas CDs require a bit more attention and movement making is a little more difficult. Either way, I can at least say that I have had a much easier time leveling in my personal experience. Idk who said the "just how Maple was" argument, but I've seen the "sake of nostalgia" argument thrown around as well. Sure some people come off as dickish with the way things are worded, but I don't think anyone (at least in this thread) said anything with those intentions in mind.
     
  5. IHearColors
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    IHearColors Timer

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    That's what I think people mean about being toxic though. It's not like you're playing a single-player game for you to reap all the benefits. I understand it's frustrating for spots you discovered to be flooded by people who found out about it on the forums/discord, but lashing out and calling people lazy because of that is the opposite of an online multiplayer experience (unless you enjoy the toxic gamer culture to which I would recommend taking some time off playing). Letting everyone know about such discoveries does hinder the exploration aspect of the game as people would rather look up a guide than go through every spot in the game, but isn't the point of playing this game is to do so with others? Am I telling you to reveal all these discoveries? Of course not, but the mindset of "I'm keeping things all for myself" definitely leaves a bad taste for people.

    Don't you need over 200 acc at that level to hit them? That would mean people who have access to buff mules, dex/acc equips, pots, and likely hp washed since CDs hit hard at those levels. Since I don't know exactly how the avoid/acc formulas work, is it possible to rebalance CD's avoid while still allowing lower acc classes to grind there at more appropriate levels? Raising the avoid too high could potentially lock people out of the map entirely even if they're level 70.
     
  6. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    You see it as being toxic. I see it as me not giving people the next thing to complain about. People think that they're entitled to information or a certain way of playing this game e.g optimal grinding - without putting in the effort. It gets tiresome.

    But don't get me wrong. If I have information I'm always more than willing to share with fellow guild members and friends. This kind of stuff is what keeps the community alive. People complaining and asking for handouts doesn't.

    Levels 70-120 probably take like 30-40 hours if you're diligent with little help. Levels 120-155 probably take another 150. You can see why it comes off as a huge nuisance when people spend so much time complaining about content that is already sped up. If they're complaining about the current state (which is the fastest it's ever been), their complaints won't stop when they do buff it to meet their demands. Then the next. Then the next. And by the time buffs happen, they're not even at that level anymore so it doesn't apply to them. See the issue? It's only a problem when it impacts them. That's not how balance should work, and having a myopic balance team that bends to the will of the community is just about the worst thing that could happen.

    That's how power creep happens and completely ruins a server.

    Edit: The accuracy formula shifts heavily in your favor the closer you get to the level of the mob. You can increase the avoid of the mob and it won't affect the min accuracy needed to 100% hit the mob if you're at or above the level of the mob - at least not by much, I don't think.
     
  7. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    And that's all still based off of assumptions of information that isn't publicly available. I'm not even going to say whether or not I agree with you. There are parts I can agree with and parts I can disagree with, but I'll never make it clear what my thoughts are because they are no longer my own to share with the community. That's the nature of being in an NDA, every word is carefully measured so the best anyone can say is that it's being looked at. To the people who see me as a friend still, they can at least be reassured, but it's beginning to look pointless to say anything to anyone who's already decided me or anyone else on staff is an enemy to rally against.
     
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  8. yurain
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    yurain Windraider

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    Sounds like someone who can't get a CD map to grind on HAHA.

    Really it is more like ppl leeching and grinding on the same map, slots are damn hard to come by. Up to 3 ppl can grind together or 1 leecher, map efficiency eh?
    Just imagine the up roar we have if ghost ship is only 1 map. The only saving grace for GS is it is 3 maps each channel (4 if you consider GS6).
     
  9. Oradious
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    Oradious Mr. Anchor

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    The next batch of clowns stuck in the same situation as you guys are just going to ask for the next meta map to be nerfed a few months after CDs get nerfed, if they get nerfed.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    There are always alternative grinding spots. I know CD is best but trust me, that isn't equal with other spots are just useless.

    [​IMG]

    This is small example for IL's 3rd job. Sorry for outdated records, but I was quite satisfied with that eph.
    (had no gallos, CDs at that period)
    approx hit 9~10m/h in the end.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. Dawnie
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    Dawnie Mushmom

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    Dawnielle, DirtySoul
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    Why did aggro changes, i dont feel improvement and most of the time now i dont even know if the boss are stuck. i.e. ravana, toad, nibbergen, nameless. It sucks if people get banned from never @gm "toad is stuck" cause they dont even know due to the fked up aggro ....
     

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