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Accepted Remove the KB effect of Guardian

Discussion in 'Accepted' started by Paid2Win, Feb 25, 2021.

  1. Paid2Win
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    Paid2Win Brown Teddy

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    2:21 AM
    Paid2Win
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    Remove the kb effect of Guardian in bossing/boss mobs

    Hello @gm and friends

    My name is Paid2Win but you may also know me as that guy who has killed multiple people in nameless and PB with guardian.

    For those of yall who don't know, Guardian functions just like shadow shifter, on a smaller scale of 20%, with a knockback and stun if the monster is within melee range. That means it gives warrior a straight 20% miss chance before avoid formulas are applied.

    Since the guardian buff, more warriors are choosing to go 1H for the survivability and memes. While I enjoy memeing as much as the next person, maybe even more than the next person tbh, having Guardian actually kb bosses within melee range can actually hurt bossing runs.

    Right now any non-fixed boss can be yeeted by Guardian. To name a few, we are talking about every CWKPQ boss, Nameless, JC, Dunas, Scarga, Pap, Ravana, and PB.

    Why is that bad? Guardian works around your hit box and will send monsters flying away with a stun (stun on non-bossing mobs ofc). This means if you accidentally take a melee touch hit and Guardian procs, things go flying... Sometimes into squishy party members or buyers.

    That's the way the skill was intended? Literally every class has had skills modified for bossing. Monster Magnet and Blind being two of the most recent. Next.

    Stand further away? We are one-handed melee fam. Our range is the smallest warrior range.

    Position better? Even being constantly vigilant, sometimes warriors need to take touch damage to avoid larger hits, are rushing to reposition, or the boss gets deaggro frames with certain skills (like barrage on nameless/pb) and will walk straight through you randomly. Warriors don't have the mobility to get away quick enough or reposition, and if the boss is "behind" you and Guardian activates, it goes flying even further behind.

    But won't you lose placement/needed KB? No. Guardian is a proc not an activated ability so there is no stability or guarantee of knockback. It is not a viable pin for any boss.

    But I enjoy seeing stronk bosses yeeted around? Well. Me too but it's not worth it.

    In closing, tldr; pls remove guardian kb from boss mobs. People already don't like to bring paladins and heroes so let's not give them another reason.

    Thank you for coming to my TED talk
     
    • Agree Agree x 10
    • Like Like x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Useful Useful x 2
  2. mathijs2000
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    mathijs2000 Mushmom

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    Sep 4, 2016
    7:21 AM
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    GoedVerhaal
    just unequip the shield bro
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Creative Creative x 1
  3. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    just get a 2 hand weapon and use that during pb / nameless. The knockback thing is a key part of how guardian is suppose to function.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  4. OP
    OP
    Paid2Win
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    Paid2Win Brown Teddy

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    2:21 AM
    Paid2Win
    Paladin
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    Katsu
    And we should keep guardian in non bossing situations because the skill/kb has merits there.

    The GMs change skills for functionality all of the time in bossing. Guardian KB has no useful function in bossing and is a hindrance sometimes. If i wanted to play 2H then I would never have rolled 1H to begin with.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. asdfjkliang
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    asdfjkliang Selkie Jr.

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    I kinda like the KB feature though lol
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    3:21 PM
    Verdict
    Bishop
    WeenieHutJrs
    It covers my cute characters face. NTY.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Magen
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    Magen Selkie Jr.

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    8:21 AM
    bishopmage
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    active
    Can you people PLEASE stop say it?
    this is just not true.
    what makes your ranage is the skill - Brandish/ Blast.
    go to dummys and try it for your self, equip 2hand sword and 1hand sword and blast your skill into it. you will see you will see your range is the same.
    (range of attack is different if you use 1st job skills, but its irrelevant for 4th skills)

    About the suggestion -
    As 1handed hero, I really like how Guardian works, even on bosses, actually most like because of how it works on bosses.
    while other warriors need to rush the boss and loss time of attack for it (either the aggro problems or just the time you waste to rush) you as 1h warrior can keep attacking.

    There are so many problems and disadvantages to be 1handed warrior (either you pala/hero) the most prominent is 2handed get multiple range stats of 20% while 1 handed gets none , but guardian is actually really good skill.

    a suggestion to you that helps me on bosses -
    when I want to go back (go left) to rush the boss or something, Im jumping left and point my character face to the right.
    Guardian pushing the mob/boss to the direction your character's point to, so if you simply walking to the left you will kill your party member, but if you jump left and quickly change your character point direction, you will avoid of killing your party members.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    Verdict
    Bishop
    WeenieHutJrs
    He used word 'range' as his damage range in stat info, not range of skill AOE hitbox.....

    Ex) what's your range? - 2259~3895 with mw+cider.
     
  9. Quintarius
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    Quintarius Orange Mushroom

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    Im prettttty sure he meant skill range not damage range
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    Bishop
    WeenieHutJrs
    I wish to trust balance debating suggesters who think themselves as 'elites and pros' never do such noobish mistakes......

    Because it's so frustrating if it's real. MapleF4
     
  11. BananaPie
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    BananaPie Selkie Jr.

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    6:21 AM
    Can you please stop spreading crap about a class you don't even play. The range on blast if you use one handed is shorter than if you use two handed unlike Brandish. I don't know why you keep talking about pallies like you know everything about the class when every time you comment about pallies there's a crapton of ignorance behind it. It's hiliarious that you're trying to tell a paladin main that they don't know how their skills work when you don't even have a paladin yourself.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 4
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  12. Magen
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    Magen Selkie Jr.

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    8:21 AM
    bishopmage
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    I meant Blast only, and if you go dummys to check it, you'll see, its the same range (distance) as 2handed sword.
    BTW - just checked it with 195 Paladin.
    and another thing - Blast has more distance than Brandish, so if the writer meant 1h paladin has the lower warrior range in game this is just NOT true talking about Blast.
    for ACB skill the weapon does effect your range.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. Huiae
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    Huiae Headless Horseman

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    Bishop
    WeenieHutJrs
    Wait, really? I trained hero so knew 1h brandish and 2h brandish has exactly same hitbox, but haven't played pally so had no idea for blasts hitbox difference of 1h/2h.

    good to learn. ty!

    edit : wait wait....I'm confused now LOL
     
  14. BananaPie
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    BananaPie Selkie Jr.

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    One of the main benefits of blast in the past was that 2h weps had a longer range than 1h weps. I’m not going to bother testing but if some paladin has tested now and confirms that the range of the two are now aligned then it must’ve been a stealth buff to the range. At the very least when I last used a 1h wep around 5 months ago it had a shorter range than 2h weps.

    side note any warrior trying to rush to reposition a boss is wasting their time. That’s why we have magnet
     
  15. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Bishop mage is correct about this - there was a patch which nerfed heavens hammer (the first of many...) and staff boosted the range of blast to compensate.

    After this patch, 1h and 2h blast range was made to be the same.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  16. Lin
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    Lin Headless Horseman

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    2:21 PM
    Linny,BangHero,Carbide
    Paladin
    200
    Bonk
    Will this change happen? MapleF10
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 2
  17. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Zakum

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    ItzLeo
    Paladin
    200
    Favela
    +1?
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  18. noobonmove
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    noobonmove Mushmom

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    11:21 PM
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    Making Guardian skill toggle on/off would be very nice
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  19. LeonardoJF
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    LeonardoJF Zakum

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    ItzLeo
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    like a buff? Nice
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  20. noobonmove
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    noobonmove Mushmom

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    Yes like a buff, but it doesn't have a duration.
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 2

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