HP Washing Solution

1. There are already 1k hp ring, 300hp mon and pet hp scrolls to buff hp.
2. Adding This thing will give advantage to ranged classes over warriors unless you raise the hp cap of warriors.
3. Hp washing is part of this game if you like it or not..
I mean - people like to waste their time doing hard work for the small benefits such as - more hp, (its addicting)
-You calculate int
-vote for the server, months of progress(one of the main things people vote for today)
-You lvl up with base int - challenging - rewarding.
4. alot of ppl spent Their time on this removing it will make them think it was for nothing.
5. Stop suggest ing this

 

I think we just need to accept that hp washing wont be optional on the server. It doesnt look like staff want it to be. So suggetions on this topic wont do anything.

 

Lmao, but its not that hard to wash the minimal either,
The hard part is to get a night lord to 4th job without leeching which will be hard even without washing at all,
You wont have to wait for more cash during your gameplay

 

first we dont know the minimum yet. but anyway it doesnt matter if its hard or not. many players feels hp washing is not natural to the game. for example i hate it when i have to stop at 99.98% and go find someone to help me level up, or go complete a quest for exp. or the fact that base int take your damage potential...

what do you mean not waiting for more cash? you need around 1m(or more) vote cash to reach the minimum.(few month of wating)

 

https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/comprehensive-hp-washing-breakdown.22948/

 

sorry i didnt say. its 1m vote cash to the minimum of 8.2k for late washers. (not for ht)

 

thats 7.7k for tokyo and its not 1m, more like 400-500k( less then 3 months ) can you finish the game within this time? I dont think so

 

I feel people have a poor misconception of what is needed and the actual amount of washing that is required.
I remember before NT was released people were freaking out and worrying about their HP not being enough to survive.
As it turns out you really don't need that much to survive at all, take Babo for example who had 6K HP at level 200 (Literally didn't wash much).
After farming the latest HP gears (MoN, Monster Book Ring, Ellin Ring, Pet HP, etc) now has enough to go on NT runs.

Previously everyone feared that you won't be able to tank toad without HP washing, yes that is true that you do required almost 10k+ HP to go toad. But at the same time I only see people killing toad once in a blue moon, and the ETC needed to proceed to completing NT quests are tradeable making it still completeable to other players whom cannot survive toad.

As for everyone's worry on PB, it's not released yet nothing is finalized. (Once again worrying before anything is released or balanced)
Why worry about having the correct amount of HP to survive it when nothing is finalized and extra content could be on the horizon. Even without leveling with ints you could easily get 7-8k based purely on the new HP based gear + leveling with ZHelm + Pend.

 

Lets say around lvl 180 you will have natural 6.5k hp. and you save ap to mp wash(2 resets per wash). take in account ap reset to get the base int 140 and back. you will be around 1m cash.
i plan to do the same only from level 140 to 155.

why worry about int gear at lvl 50 when you didnt see yet how much damage ht can do? thats my point we shouldnt be. the game need to naturally prepare you for it.
(i know ht dont need wash after the new gears)
i worry because i can do something about it now (though i dont want to wash). if i wait and find out you dont release new hp content or dont keep the server hp wash optional it will be much harder to fix my char.
i will ask again though i think you wont answer like always. will you keep the server hp wash optional? will we be able to survive pb without even one wash?

maybe its just me but i like (if its possible) to do all the quests by myself. so the fact that i wont be able to kill toad bothers me

 

edit :
As Lidas said, washing... even on a minimal margin just sucks out the possibility for many quests / areas... and makes you stress because you can't even work a normal lvl XYZ char killing KYZ - 5 lvl mobs.

I don't like HP Washing that much anymore, sucks away the time I can play without having to loose on maximizing HP gain on the long run... and I'm not saying 1 gazillion INT washing... I'm saying ever 80 INT on a normal char will really.. REALLY ruin your gameplay.

Take for example my lvl 123 Hero which I deleted... It had 80 Base INT + 30ish gear INT.
I know washing a hero has no sense... but the extra HP is always welcome ( yes yes... you put 40 INT and that's enough, well I like being a little bit more tanky )

So I wasn't even able to grind at higher lvl mobs because my damage was shit, and given I had to trade in APs for INT, I wasn't even able to wear an ST even if I wanted in my dreams.

And that's like 2 washes per level on a WARRIOR. That means 100hp per level from level 50ish, about 7k extra HP... and at what cost? Shit damage and shit accuracy.


If I were to play another char... and know I had to put even more ( given that warrior is 4MP per wash ( 40INT ) ) I wouldn't even be dared to play something like a Pirate with 16MP or a Ranged for 12MP per wash.
It's just disgusting gameplay, you don't even play to kill mobs, you just sit on a chair and mash a button on mobs that are 30~40 levels below your lvl because your dmg is too shitty to even farm at normal lvl mobs.

 

Just my 2 cents as an on and off player:
I've been playing since some time around 2016, don't exactly remember when I started. When I did however, there was no monster book ring, there were no rings at all actually. There was no MoN, no pet hp scroll stuff.
Washing was a very scary thing to me since I never knew about it as a kid and it sounded like an awful lot of work. I've been on the bishop hatetrain, I dislike leeching and I hate the fact that most PQs are sadly dead content.

Nevertheless I've come back to the game 2 times, once about I think 1.5 years ago, and now. I've leveled characters on my own, unfunded, avoiding parties while having points spent on int and washing. I never felt content was unbeatable, and I never felt like there's no sense of community on the server. Truth be told I haven't been in a lot of guilds, nor a notable player but I was there.

Lately I've been on the forum a bit to see what everyone is up to and it seems everyone is still stuck on complaining about washing. Some want it removed, some want it made easier, some want to implement a "100m meso sink for 4k hp plz". These things won't change and from my personal perspective the way things are currently it's fine.

I'm leveling a dk, as far as I know washing is mandatory to zerk well, or so Losj said at some point. I have no int gear, I got a bunch of points put in int and I'm currently pursuing my goal of 30k hp with hb by 130. It's achievable.
You don't NEED leech, you don't NEED mules and most importantly right now: You don't need to wash that much. You have all these options to get hp gear that you literally have to wash so much less compared to 2-3 years ago when I first played.

I know this is kinda just echoing and I might be a broken record and repeating things that have already been said in this thread but I wanted to get my opinion on this out there.
Overall I'm proud of the ML Crew handling the HP washing issue the way they did with events, MoN and so on.
We don't need a solution, we already made the "problem" an option.

Ok thanks

 

People are always going to complain about not having enough HP, I don't think it really matters how much HP you give them.

The people who complain the most can only really say that the GM's said that "HP washing is optional" and never even bothered to ask them to expand on that idea. They decided for themselves that it means that they should be able to do any boss on any character without washing and with minimal effort. Even Toad for some reason.

I play a Dark Knight. I know that there are bosses I'll never be able to reasonably zerk at even with max HP. Even with 55% zerk some of them will still outright kill you if you make a slight mistake or the pot is delayed from being in the middle of an attack. I'm not going to beg the admins for 60% zerk though. I'm not against a higher zerk, but frankly I'm happy now. It's challenging, and I enjoy it.

In the same way that washing is optional, zerking is also optional. I don't have to do bosses that are difficult to zerk at. I can do them at full HP and sacrifice half my damage. In the same way someone can sacrifice 50 AP if they really wanted to into HP. Or they can use an HP face accessory, HP bottomwear, HP topwear, or even one of the less efficient HP gears.

Those are options. Those make HP washing optional. Already a player could kill Horntail without any washing, just a lot of effort, going any further and you'll find some options in the last paragraph. People need to stop wanting to get spoonfed HP. The game is easy enough already.

 

I don't really agree that HP washing is a problem. Let me first go through each of your cons:

I don't really see how this is a con. The economy is based on INT being the most valuable stat, but that doesn't mean it's "distorted" as such. It's different from GMS, perhaps, but that's only because people in GMS were ignorant to the meta of washing and/or didn't want to do it because it cost real money to do. What actual problems arise from the economy being based on INT?

That's not true, especially with the addition of things like the monster book ring. Washing allows classes to do end-game content earlier. You'll naturally get more than the minimum HP for your class and there are endless ways to get HP from gear now. This may have been true a few years ago, but it isn't any more. I think the problem you are having is that all of these things take work to get, which you don't want to put in. Instead you want to pay a ludicrously cheap 100m for 4k HP.

Depends how funded you are and what class you're playing. On my NightLord, the class that theoretically takes the most INT to wash, I only have around 65 base int. This did make a significant difference at very low levels, but because INT gear is so expensive, DEX and LUK gear is relatively cheap. This meant that as soon as I could equip my LUK gear (most of it was on by level 25), I was pretty much immediately back on track. Of course, this is with pretty heavy funding, but with any amount of base INT, the difference will become less and less significant the higher your level.

This is all talking about the worst case scenario for washing though. Lets have a look at other classes:
Mages: Don't need to wash because of magic guard
Shadowers: Don't need to wash because of meso guard (though it does help)
Brawlers: Don't need to wash because they already get good HP (though it does help)
Paladins and Heroes: Don't need to wash because they already get good HP (again, it does help)
Dark Knights: HP washing allows them to maximise their DPS with zerk, but isn't needed to survive
Archers: Same boat as NLs
Corsairs: Same boat as NLs

See the pattern? Ranged, super high DPS classes have much less HP as a way of balancing them.

The first half of this is basically just repeating the previous point you made.

1m NX seems like a bit of an over-estimate:
I've produced a spreadsheet outlining how many washes you should have available at any given level if you beeline straight for 120 base INT on a NightLord (which is all I really know at the moment). You can view this on my onedrive here: https://1drv.ms/x/s!AsFsUF0eyeDziL0IEZ5xMAUIRUaG-g

This assumes you start with 7 DEX and 10 INT, although it doesn't really matter so long as your INT is at least 10.

As you can see, even if you keep your base INT all the way to level 200 and get a ridiculous 185 washes from it, that still only comes to a total of 945,500 NX to do all of your HP washes and then wash out your 120 INT.

If you stop at a more reasonable level, 120, you'll get 105 washes which will gain you a minimum of 1680HP. Add that to your minumum HP of 2598 and you have 4314 HP. Then with HB, you get 6902HP, which is almost enough to tank Horntail. At level 120.

This will all cost, including removing your INT after the fact, 697,500 NX. Quite a long way down from 1,000,000.

You also need to remember that this is the worst case scenario (ie, no funding at all) for the class with the highest INT requirement to wash. Other classes will have a much easier time.

I think the main problem I have with removing HP washing, or introducing ridiculous alternatives like this, comes from something you said right at the start of your post:

The thing is, HP washing was part of GMS, EMS, Maple SEA etc, it's just that the majority of the community didn't know about it. The majority of those who did know about it wouldn't do it anyway because it cost real world money to do. HP washing is, in that sense, optional. If you want the experience to be how you experienced the game back in the day, then don't wash. If you'd continued a Corsair up to Horntail back in the old days of GMS, you wouldn't have had enough HP to survive at level 160. HP washing is a part of the old school experience whether you like that it exists or not and removing it would remove from the old school experience that this server is trying to create.

Edit:
Just a quick thing I thought to add afterwards: 697,500 NX will take 121 days of voting assuming you maintain your vote streak once you hit the cap. This will give a total of 700,500 NX. Incidentally, 1m is reached on day 171 of voting. So "over 200" was just a number you pulled out of you ass.

 

What about making quests (a difficult ones) that will give you +HP just like some of them give fame.
I mean, fame is nice and all, but pretty useless...a quest that gives HP may be much more useful! So maybe something like the NLC questline that requires you to travel all over the world, and when you finish the whole questline (that has lvl requirements starting maybe at 90 and ending at 160 and overall gives you 2K hp (?) )
It does sounds like a pain to invent a completely new questline and as far as I know it's not an easy thing to implement, but it might be a great solution for people that want to invest this kind of time and lvls to have +2k hp (or whatever number you think is best), while already washed players can decide if they want to do it, or can just skip the questline and not be affected by it in any way.

 

like said before the main problem is late washers. why everyone think new players know about hp washing?

then why not keep it up. if they did good job with ht.

again we dont talk about ht. we talk about future boss, mainly pb. notice how staff dont answer if they want to keep hp wash optional for this boss. you cant say the server is hpw optional now but later it wont be. ppl need to start prepare for end game bosses from low level, or as soon as they can. the least they can do is tell us now.
if they want to keep it optional but dont say it, what is the reason? they want to force players who dont want it, to wash only to find out later it was waste of time??

not many players hp wash in the original game (just watch videos and see). it cost too much. i think it started to be popular on private server. you can see its something the developers didnt want because they change it later. the staff here changed alot of "bugs" or problems they think will make the game more fair(skills, mapowner..). so they can do te same here.
and for the cost of nx take level 140 unwashed archer (its basically me). i dont want to wash for alot of levels(i dont like high base int until im 180) so i choose mp wash all fresh ap(2 reset for 1 wash) from level 140-155 and i need to get to 140 base int and back.you will see its more than 1m nx.
why ppl always take washers from low level as example for how easy it is?

 

Yes. I actually said just that in my post. Washing had the same effect in the original game, but people didn't do it. If you don't want to wash, don't wash. The game will be how the original game would have been if you never washed there.

But removing the need for HP washing would over-power classes that currently "need" to do it. That wouldn't make the game any more balanced or fair.

People take washing from a low level as the prime example because that's the efficient way of doing it. Sure, if you do it in an inefficient way, it could cost any amount of NX. I accept that you may be stuck doing it an inefficient way if you didn't know it existed until you were already a high level, but at the point the problem isn't with the system of HP washing, it's with players not knowing about it soon enough. The problem there is that the need for HP washing is a beginner's trap. The solution for that? Education.

Complaining that it will take a lot more NX to wash when you start at level 140 is like complaining that it takes too long to level from 29-30 because you're still grinding on snails. Yes, doing something inefficiently is going to be inefficient. Whoop-de-doo.

 

my point was that in the original they changed it because they understood that its bad mechanic.

if you could choose between removing hp wash completly or keep it wat you do? i think removing it whould bring more balance with the amount of hp for each class.
you probably think the monster book and the new hp items were bad ideas as well? in the same way they took hp washing from "op classes".
though i feel we think the same: if nothing can be made to fix hp washing at least dont say the server is hp wash optional and explain it in game to new players(with npc or something).

its not the same bacause i dont have a choice. why take the easy way as example, while im the one who suffer the most from the current situation? while those suggetions effect all it mainly target alot of players like me. if i want to be fair we can even go to extreme example like unwashed lvl 200. what he should do?

 

I kind of feel like you don't really want to be playing on a bbb server, from how you're talking.

Context is very important here. If I was writing an entirely new game and someone proposed it as a mechanic, I would throw them down the stairs. For a nostalgic server like this, I would keep it because it is part of the nostalgic experience.

No, because they take a lot of effort to get, for the most part (thinking mainly of the monster ring). I don't mind the addition of alternatives that take a similar amount of time or effort, it's just when people come up with "solutions" like introducing a 4k HP ring for 100m to replace a big part of how the game works, it really irks me. Adding more legitimately interesting content like the monsterbook to combat it is a good thing. What I am arguing, though, is that it is not necessary.

I don't quite agree. I don't think it needs to be fixed. I do agree that there should be something like an NPC added to explain it, though. It is a beginner's trap and that is a problem.

I agree it's not a perfect parallel, but you had a choice, you just chose poorly because you didn't have enough information to make an accurate decision.

For what it's worth, it's not uncommon for older RPGs to have cumulative things like this that can give you a garbage character that you've put tons of work into because you didn't understand a mechanic at lower levels.

 

I would keep it. Removing hp washing all together severely nerfs all ranged classes and their performance on most bosses in the game.

For the unwashed level 200, theres no other option other than to make a new character - or scroll godly perfect HP gear/ get monster book ring / blackfist cape, etc. Though, if you are level 200, you are probably pretty wealthy in legends and can probably speed run to 14x in 1.5 months or so via leeching.