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HP Washing Solution

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by icarian, Apr 28, 2019.

  1. Lidas
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    Lidas Mixed Golem

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    im glad to see you agree its bad(or its better without it). but its not nostalgic either in my opinion. like you said not many hp wash and most dont even heard of hp washing before they join private servers. how can it be nosstalgic if we didnt even know it was there.
    i think i like bbb
    because of the nostalgia. the pqs, scrollng, crafting, not too complicated, not too many classes, the rates: not too easy... i do wash after all even though i dont like it because i think the pros>cons.
    i didnt even know there were options how could i choose:laugh:
    i mean when you remove it you can also add more hp to the class(like mb ring). so ppl wont have too low hp but not too high either.

    i think ranged should take 1 hit and then potion. at least when they just at the level of the boss. for example lvl 155 archer will be able to take 1 hit from ht while lvl 180 will be able to take 2. this can be achieved with quests for hp that open by level..

    btw i know hp washing cant be removed from legends at this point, but i dont understand why people say its so good or that it is optional..
     
  2. Kanade
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    Kanade Mixed Golem

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    Legends is a joke.png
     
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  3. Midnight
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    Midnight Skelegon

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    I think that's pretty ok though. Legends has a history of beautiful little tweaks and additions, not "OK LETS TAKE OUT THIS SYSTEM IN PARTICULAR"
     
  4. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    In v.62 you wouldn't be killing HT at 155 on a ranged character. That's not nostalgic in the least. You'd be waiting until like 180 or later in order to begin to kill him. That's how it was meant to be. If HP washing is not nostalgic then how is creating a bunch of random quests to shoehorn in HP considered any more nostalgiac?

    If you want the nostalgic experience then you don't have to wash. Nobody is forcing you to. Nobody is forcing you to continue to play a character that you consider to be not good enough. If it bothers you so much then you can remake it. You aren't chained to your character. I've noticed the people that have the most fun in this game aren't really concerned with washing, or with leveling, they come on, talk, do some inefficient stuff, and genuinely enjoy it.

    Because it is optional currently. PB's max hits haven't even been announced. It took over a year from the announcement of Neo-Tokyo for it to come out. Nobody knows when it'll come or what will be needed but assuming the worst about it is always a great start.

    HP washing is good in that people can feel accomplished once they are finished. They can look back and feel proud for accomplishing a long term goal on a character. This is a shared experience for most of the players who have been around long enough to reach the end game content.
     
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  5. ahotbanana
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    ahotbanana Capt. Latanica Retired Staff

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    I don't agree that it's bad. Please stop putting words in my mouth. I think it would be a bad idea to incorporate it into a modern game because it wouldn't fit with how modern games are generally made.
    You chose not to look at guides on how to min-max your character.
     
  6. iLovKimberly
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    iLovKimberly Headless Horseman

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    It took me long to realise that the majority of the player and staff prefer the HP washing system currently as it is.

    I am fine either way, I have set up my direction fine. Those new players whom will benefit from any proposed suggestions, they only complain, and whenever suggestion threads like this is posted, they all disappear and never come to defend.
     
  7. Lidas
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    Lidas Mixed Golem

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    the 155 was just an example.
    if it was v62 maybe you are right. but with the release of new end game content, to start go to ht runs at level 155 is good in my opinion.(the new bosses push ht to early levels).
    and btw without hp washing you will be 100% right. players would be able to get to the hp requirement only around 180.

    i dont think its question of would it be more nostalgic. in my opinion it would be more fair. while quests can be completed at any level, hp washing is not. if you miss it you are "done".
    but still i think it be more nostalgic because i know quest are part of maplestory and i dont remember hp washing was ever part of it.
    what the point of it being optional now if peaple need to start washing now for the future bosses.
    i can understand that. but at the same time wont you feel the same after finishing long hard quest? for example complete the mb ring quest was great experience for me.
    hp wash dosnt even require any special gameplay from you. if you start at low level you just get base int and start normal leveling. and if you late washer its just about the ap resets.
    accomplishment which is not through gameplay is bit harder for me to relate to, but still i get it.

    sorry but i thought you wont put it in the new game because it bad mechanic. and you only add it to this server for nostalgia. thats why after, i tried to say why i think its not nostalgic for me. sorry if i didnt got something right.
    and at the "you probably think" i realy tried to ask you. mb.
    still how can you say hard quest are ok, but adding hp not helping for balance..

    why would i choose not to look at guide to make the bset character?
    i did look at guides. but i never see something on hp washing. it always about skill build or traning spots.. maybe new guides today include this.
    but anyway why punish someone because he didnt look at guides. seem unfair to me.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
  8. ahotbanana
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    ahotbanana Capt. Latanica Retired Staff

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    It's not punishing you for not looking at guides as such, but rather for not min-maxing based on how the game works. It's quite common to have this kind of thing in older RPGs. This is because older RPGs borrow heavily from pen and paper RPGs where you'd need to understand the underlying mechanics of the game to even play it. It's a different mentality. To put it into perspective, I'll compare it to another super-popular RPG from a similar time: The Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion. In Oblivion, you gain health each time you level up. The amount of health you gain is based on your endurance (endurance/10, rounding down to the nearest integer). This means that if you mainline skills that raise your endurance at the start of the game, your character will have more health in the long-run compared to someone who focuses on dealing loads of damage from the beginning of the game.

    I appreciate that these are two completely different games, but my point is that the general mentality among RPG developers and players at the time was for players to think about and understand the underlying game mechanics to this level if they want to min-max their characters efficiently. It was common practice and this makes it part of the nostalgia for me and a lot of other people.

    Maybe you were unlucky and didn't see any guides about HP washing, but I remember seeing them on forums back in the GMS days, so they definitely existed. That's kind of beside the point, though. The mechanic exists and if you, for any reason "fair" or otherwise, do not exploit it, your character should be worse off than the character of someone who did exploit it.
     
  9. Lidas
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    Lidas Mixed Golem

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    i agree my character should be worse, but i dont agree it should be blocked from the game.
    i dont think other games have this case where if you dont do something at low levels you are not able to kill the final boss. and even if they do it doesnt make it right.
    btw the example you gave with endurance stat sound realy intuitive even for noob. as in endurance will give me more hp or defence.
    are you sure they dont explain what this stat do in the game?

    its very different in maplestory. hp wash is very not intuitive. they tell you in the begginer book that int give more mp, but its very hard to make the connection between this and the hp wash. which is kind of exploit outside game item (ap reset).
     
  10. ahotbanana
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    ahotbanana Capt. Latanica Retired Staff

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    I believe Oblivion tells you that endurance determines your maximum HP, but doesn't make it clear that it's a cumulative thing like that. I'm not 100% certain of this, but Oblivion was just an example, really. Honestly, though, I think Oblivion is more punishing than Maple in this sort of way. If you really mess up your character badly in that game, you can have a lot of trouble with even regular mobs because of how the game level scales.

    I do agree that HP washing isn't intuitive, but it's not like you need a degree in computer science to understand it, either. I agree that it should be explained to beginners; it should be explained that if you put a point into HP, you can take it out of MP and vice versa. That is the only change I feel is really necessary, personally, though.
     
  11. Masterg75
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    Masterg75 Brown Teddy

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    Instead of removing hp wash you can suggest adding a warning ingame when creating a nightlord/ outlaw/ archer to indicate new players about it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. Lidas
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    Lidas Mixed Golem

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    I suggested it before, but it doest look staff want to do it. I think ahotbanana did too.
     
  13. Precel
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    Precel Zakum Retired Staff

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    No reason to limit it to certain classes. Other classes may want to hp wash too.
     
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  14. KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    I always see this problem, not on the HP rather on the damage that monster do. It's too damn high and potting is not a challenge (perhaps if you are zerking) pets can do it pretty alright(not really but the help a bit poting). I see no solution overall to all this washing thing tho o.o just perhaps nerf pink bean when it comes out when comes to damage, the rest has a way around with a bit of washing and hb, even the stupid magic monster, that shit does 15.5k at range but not too far so melee can keep that guy away.
    Edit: I did a pretty meh wash on my NL he has like 7k hp atm at lv 17x and has no monster book ring or mark of naricain, and he can do well with hb on ht or any other boss.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
  15. Breaklimits
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    Breaklimits King Slime

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    Ppl forget hp washing is optional.
    So if uwant insane hp it takes insane time makes sense its your choise no1 forces u into washing back in old days only nightlords and bm washed a few times like 30 times.
    Its no need to fix anythin cause the game is based on none washing.
    If u wash its like having goldy gear it takes time and as mentioned if u can wash faster ppl will wash until 30khp
    Sobi assume just wash small amount if u dont wanna wait tolong
     
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  16. DarkSuga
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    DarkSuga Mano

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    I'm a new player that just started yesterday. I've been playing the current maplestory for a long time but downloaded this version because I wanted the nostalgia. Seeing all this about hp washing has really put me off (and due to some personal issues, I don't really understand it either, no matter how many times I've read the guides.) At this point I've pretty much decided 'I guess I won't go bossing ever' because of this washing stuff. Which is disappointing because back when I played maple when it still looked like this, I don't think I bossed back then and I wanted to experience that. But I guess not.
     
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  17. iLovKimberly
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    iLovKimberly Headless Horseman

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    There are two opposing views on revealing hp washing to new player.
    A) We should not mention hp washing to new players, so as not to pressure them turning them off. Your response basically strengthen this point
    vs.
    B) We should mention existence the hp washing (not necessarily in details), at least let the new players know there is such things. If we withhold this information, we are taking away your freedom to choose. Some new players don't know about hp washing, and play until high levels and frustrated why nobody tell them about it.

    It depends what class you are playing, and what boss you are aiming to participate in. HP washing is not easy, but not very very difficult either.

    For most of the boss, and most of the class, you CAN still boss WITHOUT hp washing, just that not at early levels.
    Players back in the days don't boss at early levels either.

    We are all adults now and with knowledge of the game mechanics, that's why hp washing is put into play, to maximize efficiency and performance.

    Is efficiency and performance important? Maybe yes maybe no, you decide it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
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  18. ahotbanana
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    ahotbanana Capt. Latanica Retired Staff

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    Which bosses are you expecting to miss out on?

    The most commonly done bosses are Zakum and Horntail. Zakum doesn't require washing at all. Horntail, you'll need to wash if you want to fight him from 160, but you'll be able to survive hits from him from around 180 if you don't. You are reliant on having Hyper Body in your party for these numbers, but that's the price you pay.

    Yeah, you'll have to wait a lot longer, which is why most people HP wash, but it isn't strictly necessary.
     
  19. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    I'd also like to point out that very few people reach lv 180 or higher. It is quite the adventure to grind to that high of a level.
     
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  20. Motto
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    Motto Skelegon

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    Can I do Zakum with a NL, no washing at all, 0 washing.
     
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