Comprehensive Gashapon Redistribution List

Personally I don't think there is another way. I think it's okay as it is. The problem from my perspective was that voting is OP, essentially. Getting 5k NX/day is better than what you actually can accomplish by grinding because Gachapon items are so OP and voting is the only means (currently) of obtaining NX.

And to answer @Nikki's clarification (thanks for making that more explicit), I agree if the achievement system truly is just milestones and/or benefits heavily the players who already have resources. However, it does not need to be the case. As I said originally, the devil is in the details. What exactly the achievement system looks like could make it better, or worse. I think it has the potential to make things better, though. (To give context, I came from a server did an achievement system mostly well)

Interestingly, I was just talking about this with my boyfriend the other day and it was something I noted that I thought MapleStory does much better than World of Warcraft. And the easiest way I think to do this? Party Quests. MapleStory despite its flaws did an excellent job of thrusting you into the economy right away. Rewards from Kerning PQ include valuable 10% overall scrolls which new players can make a decent amount of money for. I'm all for buffing PQ's with better rewards that make them valuable to do, especially since so many players prefer grinding.

I assume you're concerned mostly about the low ranked/new players? I don't think a seasoned veteran has any problem participating in the economy with zhelms and HTPs. So yeah, that's my input. I think the achievement system - done properly - will help.

 

If the PQ's were buffed just enough to entice more but not everyone to partake, that might actually be a great suggestion in it's self but doesn't relate to this thread. Unless of course you were referring to adding gachapon items to the PQ's?

 

I did mean that - and somewhat it is already listed as part of his suggestion.

I think it also breaks the nostalgia a bit less because we're used to Party Quests giving weird, random things. LMPQ actually already rewards some Dark Scrolls.

Again, careful balance needs to be given and I think Dark Scrolls are the primary target of my attention for buffing PQs. Adding in PACs or Chaos Scrolls... not as keen on that stuff.

 

Currently, gachapon is available to everyone who 1) has the ability to vote 2)Character level above 35 (for a good reason). If we remove the ability to obtain certain gachapon items by adding them to PQ's with level restrictions that might be a problem.

 

I thought this was meant as an addition to gachapon, not substituting it entirely... if this thread is intending to substitute gacha rewards, then I am 100% out lol

 

As the thread title imply "Comprehensive Gashapon Redistribution" w'ere discussing the redistribution of the gachapon rewards. Not the addition to. Ultimately the conversation's taking place here are just the exploration of what we all feel is the best route and we welcome any constructive input.

*Edit*
I just re-read Lionhearts first post and he mentions previous topics. This current thread was in light of the other topics and if you weren't aware of the conversations that took place in them i can see why it could get confusing.

 

OP:

So uh... are we all actually in agreement that we're replacing? I disagree 100% with replacing, but I am okay with in addition to.

Just to note, I am also okay with rebalancing gachapon, but outright removing the items it gives/putting them from mob drops/PQ's instead is something I disagree with. Don't personally like the idea. Not going to say it wouldn't work, but I don't really like the idea.

 

If you read on, he has a very long well thought out list of mobs he suggest the gachapon items should drop from. Moving the items from the "slot machine" to the mobs is what's called redistribution. Or in this case, replacing.

*Edit*
I actually have no idea what he meant by that LOL!

 

Yeah, and I thought because he says "I'm not suggesting we alter/remove gachapon" that he was listing them as possible additional ways to obtain the items. I don't think that was originally clear. Now that I realize you guys are talking about outright replacing gacha rewards with other means of obtaining the items, I have to disagree with the premise.

 

LOL!

See my above edit. Yeah, these threads have become quite the cluster <bad word here> and we spend more time arguing and defending ourselves then making progress. Right now, we're just tossing ideas around. Kimberly has voiced her concern's about the use of voting NX to purchase tickets as a means of leverage to get players to vote. We can use that a basis to build up from.

 

My ideas are all based in using it as a diversified addition. This meaning that the rates of obtaining good items from Gachapon should/would need to go slightly down and (should) be evened throughout cities. This would still provide a 'pump' into the economy for new players, as well as provide a way for users to take advantage of what Gachapon was truly meant to be before maple marketing executives became greedy and put 'endgame' items inside of it; a slot machine to help get yourself off the ground if you're a new player/playing in a new server (BIG, they really wanted you to switch servers! gotta buy all new shit) who has already given into the temptation of picking up an NX card. It is all about finding the person whose brain reward system functions in the way that fits their product, and exploiting it to the absolute highest degree.

We're perpetuating their genius way of getting our once 'indecisive teenage asses' to spend money

Edit: Just saw the last three posts! Lionhearts thread beginning is not law, gotta keep our thoughts fluid here!!

 

Yeah, it's always nice to be talking about the same thing, otherwise the discussion gets kind of pointless.

My biggest problem with the suggestion is just looking at it from the developer's perspective. This solution, while in theory I support as a potentially really good way to remedy the problem, takes a lot of time and effort rebalancing. The hard part isn't the technical side of moving a drop, but actually deciding where the drops should go. The reason I brought up the achievement NX was because I thought that, implemented properly, it does a better job of solving this issue in a much simpler way.

In addition to making NX "farmable" through some achievement system, spreading the drops through Party Quests and the like may help, as well as possibly raising the price of Gachapon tickets (in conjuction with providing active obtaining of NX, to discourage idle obtaining of NX).

 

I agree. Party quest drops and/or monster drops, in addition to a free market 'timesaving' money sinking option like Owls of Minevra could help combat possible market conglomerates created by the robust/healthy economy (having merchants is a sign of healthy economy, rather than the type of feudalism that currently reigns), combat inequality between high/low levels (we all know the longer we play this game for one period of time, the lazier we get within it), and allow prices to stabilize.

We can't keep fighting capitalism/fair competition in a game that allows/encourages free market trade. But if we do intend to keep doing just that, I wanna be a princess.

 

Why should we care about poor people's purchasing power? Because most people are poor. It's the same reason you should actually care about the nooby players, even if you are on top. Encouraging them to engage and provide value to the economy is important because they are the majority. This isn't to say everything should be hardcore egalitarian, indeed it shouldn't, but when the gap is too large you essentially render a new player 'worthless'. It's a bad thing because it basically excludes them from participating in the economy, unless they want to put forth the effort to hop over an ever-growing wall.

What I earlier complimented MapleStory on is the fact that it's so good at not doing that. Even as a noob, I can obtain powerful scrolls which can be sold to the higher level players for a good amount of mesos. MapleStory already at its core does a decent job of integrating newer players into the economy. Party Quests and easier area bosses allow the noob players to interact in the economy by providing them opportunities for decent rewards.

If we weren't getting 5k NX/day, I wouldn't be concerned. I think the concern people may be having, at least the one that comes to my mind, is that players currently are heavily rewarded simply for being here, rather than the more appropriate, for playing here. To elaborate, I could potentially sit here and vote, never playing or interacting in Legends, for a month. Then I could start actually playing and have saved up 150k NX, netting me 175 gacha tickets. Quite a lot! Meanwhile, another player starts on the same day as he finds Legends, but doesn't have that vote cash stored up. He plays actively for 2 weeks, but I still have more mesos. Why? Because I was voting longer and he didn't get rewarded that much for grinding/PQ'ing as a noob in that time. That is my concern with the current state of things.

I believe that an achievement system designed to reward active playing (but not simply milestones such as 'achieved level 70') would help mitigate this. This is because you would now be able to obtain NX through active playing, rather than being rewarded for doing nothing. Providing incentives to actively play that beat out idling is important in my opinion, and in providing those incentives, you need to keep in mind balance and allowing the less high leveled players to participate.

TL;DR: The key isn't to make the veteran and new player equals, but to provide opportunities for both the new player and veteran to improve and gain value so that they can be included into the game's economy.

 

That's where I disagree with you, as I think the future state will be worse for newer players than the current one. My perceived problem is an ever growing NX-wall between older players vs newer players, with newer players inevitably doomed to never catch up because they simply can't. It isn't that bad right now for sure, but as time goes on, I am concerned for the state of the future gachaconomy.

To summarize, I think currently idling is over rewarded and active playing is under rewarded.

 

You're missing active playing vs idling.

Player 1 votes from day 1 until 3 months in.
Player 2 joins 2 months in and plays for one month actively.
Player 1 still has more money despite never actively playing.

(Yes I know you have to get level 35, but that's hardly "active playing")

I don't like that. If that's fine to you, there's no problem in your opinion. You don't have to agree with me.

 

Hey @Lionheart , was the above sentence (highlighted in red) supposed to have something more? Just curious.