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Fix Taiwan.

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by thewayman, Jul 21, 2020.

  1. thewayman
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    thewayman Horny Mushroom

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    So, after coming back and farming some "new" spots I realized that what happened when kid mannies went away (and the other 4 maps with manniquens) were nerfed they just all flooded another spot. For example CD's. Now with how popular the server is it is impossible to solo, because the map is big and why would I hog a map as a 100+ dk spamming roar when someone could easily grind here around 7x to 9x.

    What I am saying is that instead of solving this problem of having a good warrior map to farm meso it kind of is now just a new map but sadly it's only 1 map not 4. If kid mannies was taken you could just go to any of the other maps and farm equips/meso just as easily. Sure you wouldn't get INT overall scrolls but to me idrc for that. This new map is always full, and I would honestly hate to hog a map when I just want to farm meso... idk it just seems selfish.

    I don't really have a proposed fix but I personally thing that the situation is now worse than it was before. Maybe if you bring mannies back take time to think about how to make it balanced. Personally nerfing a spot and making it just unusable and a waste of space you should just remove it from the game. Make it easier to get to CD's cuz I mean every map is trash there now except that one that is flooded with players..

    Overall I hope you re-consider this horrific idea, I should have to just sit and afk to find a meso map for hours only to have level 7x ask if they can train. Mixing meso maps and exp maps with only 1 spot is kind of trash, consider where warriors can even go for good meso farm. I mean if this is what you guys truly want to do and hurt warriors fine, but I just wanted to say from my stand point Taiwan is like a fight for CD's that is way worse than the mannies situation. Maybe keep a buffed CD's for players to train, and then keep kid mannies for higher levels to farm. If you feel the meso is too much take scrolls away from them and give them a different one. If the drops you feel are too good change that as well.

    Edit: I actually went to check this morning for a CC and sadly people are now selling leech here... So finding a cc = never going to happen... when you have a wife, job, church, family, basically being an adult I don't have time to wait hours to get a cc, I just want to pop on play and have fun...

    Thank you,

    TWM
     
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  2. Eighty
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    Eighty Windraider

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    I still think destroying mannequins was not well thought out. It simply pushed the meta elsewhere along with the problems they cited for nerfing it in the first place - besides the summon farming - and created new ones such as overcrowding at a single map.

    They are buffing other maps and it commendable but it is obvious that a few of the changes made were not based on any actual grinding experience at those maps and thus the buffs to those maps see very little improvement besides a slight increase in epm.

    For example, dual ghost pirates(and the other deep ludi dungeons) was buffed to have higher spawn rate though a buff in spawn count would have made more sense than spawn rate since the map is so big. Walking up and down would half negate the buff and even FM teleporting did not help much.

    NT mobs were buffed in exp but the annoying statuses(at least initially), map layouts and the abysmal spawn count (Park) were not addressed. These buffs practically only slightly made eruwaters more appealing.

    But of course there is good change too such as the buffed himes map.

    Perhaps, the staff would like to start taking feedback for map changes from actual players grinding at those maps and tweak accordingly to better achieve their desired outcome?
     
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  3. OP
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    thewayman
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    thewayman Horny Mushroom

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    I did not know of the other changes you listed since I just started playing again, I agree with you completely.
     
  4. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    There are several other maps that got buffed that are good for warriors.
    People need to stop following outdated training guides and go explore for themselves.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
  5. PrettyLights
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    PrettyLights Timer

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    There are a lot of over crowded maps making training frusterating. Especially relating to the final point/edit of yourd post.
     
  6. Tate
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    Tate Capt. Latanica

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    Personally speaking the buff to the Dual Ghost Pirates map (Hidden Street: Unbalanced Time) was great for me grinding up to lvl 120. I think it's also a matter of awareness seeing as alot of people dont take the time to actually test and grind it out on the buffed maps and for those who are new they are hardly aware of the changes in the first place..
     
  7. OP
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    thewayman Horny Mushroom

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    DGP to 120???? This seems absurd why in the world O_O.... So why buff maps so much they become good til 120, himes should be better and ulu2 surely right?? I think we have a underlining issue with buffing and nerfing maps...
     
  8. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    What exactly are you suggesting?

    Mannequins were fixed so that it isn't a brain-dead way to farm and gain 20 levels in a couple of hours. My I/L was able to train at mannequins post-changes and still get ~5m eph from level 55-75, so it's not a completely dead/unviable map, just a more niche one. Viability-wise, people can still utilize the map as a party/split map from 65-75+, but this isn't as popular, or people just have not experimented with this idea yet because FoG became the new hot spot for lvls 50+. Mannequins is now better suited for people with mobility/range and single target damage over mobbing.

    upload_2020-7-22_10-29-25.png
     
  9. OP
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    thewayman
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    thewayman Horny Mushroom

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    upload_2020-7-22_15-0-35.png

    To be honest this is what it was like, more so as warriors, I found wolf spiders was just better in some cases for meso/mob ratio. I understand you think it is a brain-dead map but they just shifted the meta to CD's which are quite frankly BROKEN like you can go from 70-100 in one day IMO easily. We are saying that they aren't fixing the issues they are just shifting them. Because CD's is way more broken than mannies ever was.
     
  10. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    CDs is not broken. People are just finally realizing that there are more optimal ways to gain exp than solo grinding - by party training in larger maps.

    EXP from 70 - 100 is 125.5m. Grinding from 70-100 at CDs would take about 20 hours of party grinding. That's not broken.
     
  11. Tate
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    Tate Capt. Latanica

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    I'm sorry but that was a lie. I was only realistically there for six levels in between searching for a priest for FoT/himes. It was my go to map to also farm pickpocketed mesos because of how tanky they are and cape int 60s.
    https://maplelegends.com/lib/monster?id=7160000


    upload_2020-7-23_9-57-43.png
     
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  12. OP
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    thewayman
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    thewayman Horny Mushroom

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    Thank you for updating us on that! 70-100 back in my day took months, if not a year for me because I kept playing on and off. Take for granted GMS was 100% way different than ML, but CD's is broken out the kazoo. I think my avg EPM at kid mannies was 100 or so, so I understand that it was broken as well. I fail to see anyone suggest a good way to fix CD's and kid mannies, the goal is not to destroy training spots, rather give people options to say "hey this channel is full lets try kid mannies, or other mannies". While giving similar if not CD's can still be better exp. My suggestion remains:

    Take away 1-2 mobs from all Taiwan maps, from CD's maybe 3.
    Re-enable auto aggro.
    Nerf Meso drop on all mobs in Taiwan.
    Take off 100/200 EXP from all mobs in Taiwan depending on how you feel. (Note: This still makes this the best spot for 7x-9x IMO).
    I do not feel a nerf to the direct spawn rate is needed, this is how FoG was destroyed and no one wants to see FoG destroyed again at a different spot.
    If you really feel meso farm is the issue: take away weapons/change drops of scrolls/ mix up the drop table on all Taiwan mobs.

    My opinion:
    Taiwan should be a good spot 7x-8x. These levels suck but shouldn't be a cake walk. I feel Taiwan should remain a good meso spot and get nerfed in terms of exp.
    No one should go from 7x-100 in a day...

    Thanks,
    TWM
     
  13. RegalStar
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    I think you have an underlining issue with being too insistent on some self-conceived image of how things should be. Of course buffing and nerfing maps will shift the meta around, but what kind of God given reason is there that one certain map should be meta and another certain map should not be?

    Before the manne patch they were basically the best training place for a long time period bar none and nowhere else can even get close. Post changes CDs is the best place (though for a smaller time window), but many other places like Vikerola, Himes, DGP, (and from what I heard from someone) Grim Phantom Watches are all close enough to be viable alternatives now. That was the point of the changes; to shorten the gap between the "meta" map and the "alternatives" so people have places to go when they don't want to fight over maps.
     
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  14. OP
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    thewayman
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    thewayman Horny Mushroom

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    I agree no one map should be the meta rather you should have options. I don't agree with your second paragraph it contradicts your first one. No one map should be the simple best and every other map be useless and not a farm. Stick to the first paragraph.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  15. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    Auto aggro in general is a really bad mechanic that can lead to a lot of abusive things. As much as I would love to have it back, I 100% think its unhealthy for the server in the long run.
     
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  16. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Every other map is not useless - that's the point. I showed you above that mannes is still viable.
    The whole obsession with optimal exp is bullshit and doesn't really matter from levels 30-110.
    If you're spending 20-30 minutes channel surfing to find a map at the 'meta' spot, you're wasting time and gaining less net exp/time than at the next spot.
     
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  17. OP
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    thewayman
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    thewayman Horny Mushroom

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    Okay so you are saying that kid mannies is still good, for a ranged character maybe, but even then I see ZERO people there. Everyone is at CD's, again I re-instate what we said earlier,

    The staff (or whoever made the decision) simply shifted the meta to a spot that is way more broken. CD's is SUPER strong compared to kid mannies, auto aggro or not, when you did have auto aggro CD's spawn rate and mob count is stupid high.

    Again, we need to fix Taiwan in general, not a free ride to 100. Enjoy the 7x-100 grind. I hope they take some of my changes into effect and implement some changes in Taiwan.
    The fact is a change is needed, I feel they made CD's far more stronger than mannies ever was. That is why I said FIX Taiwan not bring auto aggro back, I recommend they do but take away a mob or two and fix the issues they had with kid mannies. CD's need to be nerfed not killed because I enjoy seeing party play a lot.
     
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  18. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    You seem to have little grasp of the game and the way balance works. If CDs were nerfed, partying in these maps would be less encouraged in comparison to solo-grinding alternatives.

    The suggestions you are asking for are in direct conflict with the end goals you are requesting.
     
  19. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    The issue is that theres 1 cd map as opposed to 4 mannies maps. He cant hog an entire map in good faith without the other maps to send the swarm to. FWIW the fact that CDs encourage people to party and map share for higher exp makes it infinitely better than mannies. Sure you could do that before, but if I *can* take the whole map (or multiple maps with multi/summon farming) why wouldnt I?

    cc pls.
     
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