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Making HP Washing Truly Optional - a Solution

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Skuire, Apr 25, 2021.

Do you think implementing this system would be good for the future of MapleLegends?

  1. Yes

    250 vote(s)
    83.3%
  2. No

    20 vote(s)
    6.7%
  3. Maybe

    30 vote(s)
    10.0%
  1. BananaPie
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    BananaPie Selkie Jr.

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    I’m always slightly baffled with the new players get turned off by hp washing so they leave argument. It’s not like Hp washing is new, it’s been here for ages. We were all new players at one point and most of us probably only realised what hp washing was a while after we started playing yet we still chose to stick around. It’s not like we were all old players from the beginning. In fact I’m in a guild where most of the core members joined around jan-feb 2021 and they’re still sticking around even after learning about Hp washing.

    On my own thoughts about this - rather than doing a quest which increases our max HP, I’d rather see the two remaining ring slots we have filled with perhaps a permanent ring which increases HP. By way of questing maybe or some other route similar to monster book hunting
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Creative Creative x 1
  2. lv1crook
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    lv1crook Capt. Latanica

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    When people say that it is optional because you could technically dodge their attacks, you have to remember what game you are playing. Bosses in MapleStory aren’t like other games, where you can wipe and restart immediately there are limited tries and more resources spent. The bosses also take much longer to kill, usually a casual hour rather than a more intense 10-25 minutes. Not to mention automatic respawn timers. In MapleStory, failure is severely discouraged by design. I think it is reasonable to expect a player to dodge all/most attacks in shorter fights, but being always vigilant for something that will end you instantly for over an hour is draining and doesn’t make for a fun experience. If everyone in a raid really didn’t HP wash, then it would at least take 3-5 fails before they could even finish it one time. Think of all the resources, time, and morale lost over that time. Even after a successful run, it would be stressful to continue running because the possibility of failure is always there and the risk reward ratio is incredibly skewed. People are already complaining about shit boss loots but what does a non-washer gain for all their extra effort and resources spent. It’s nearly a net negative. The way the boss fights are designed they are meant to be brain dead easy.

    so yes, you could say washing is optional technically. Just like you could say it’s possible to beat Mario bros without using a mushroom. Is it really rewarding, worthwhile, or fun to play it like that? For 99% of players I would say no. Bossing as it stands is completely designed around washed players, and that’s why I think it is misleading to say it is optional. You are only shooting yourself in the foot of you are not washing, that has always been the truth.

    Which is why I think this idea is good. If the design philosophy of this server is that it should be optional to wash, then this change would bring the player experience much closer to that goal.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  3. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Washing is not the only method to achieve a certain HP goal; therefore, washing is optional.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
  4. eliyuh
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    eliyuh Mushmom

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    If the fact that you can bloodwash is what makes hp washing optional then every server ever made is hp wash optional and there's no need for a tag. Tagging "HP wash optional" makes it seem like there's some sort of custom alternative method to get hp when there's really not.
    Your comments get more dislikes on this thread than anyone else, if anyone should stop bumping this thread its you lmao.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    upload_2021-5-12_21-6-16.png

    Why would I care about disagrees when they come from misinformed noobs, especially in clusters like this? I find the circlejerk quite amusing tbh.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  6. xadra
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    xadra Capt. Latanica

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    Just because you guys keep dogpiling him with dislikes doesn't make him wrong lul

    Nor does the circlejerk of people liking each others comments make them right
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. Cerulean
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    Cerulean Brown Teddy

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    I'm not putting my foot down on either side of this debate, but comments like this are really silly, especially since "more dislikes on this thread than anyone else" is literally only a handful of dislikes that are almost always by the exact same few people (yourself + a couple others). Going through and hitting "disagree" on every single comment that someone makes in a thread, then saying "wow you get so many more dislikes than me!" is pretty cringe lol.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Jolly_Walker
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    Jolly_Walker Chronos

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    Instead of arguing on the semantics of hp washing optional. Can the discussion go back to the original post's idea.

    The server should look at retaining new players, which is the whole point of finding a solution to washing.

    New players that might be coming to legends and playing for a long time would hit LPQ levels and get demotivated just cause their characters are ruined because hp washing is a thing.

    Arguments like "if youre going to HT/PB levels anyways washing is effortless", ask yourself did you PLAN to grind hard on this server for over a year on day 1?
    For new players the idea that your character is ruined and only good until a certain level is extremely demotivating, and the idea that you had to give up all enjoyment on your early-mid game just to be able to compete with an average attacker late game is aburd and would just prompt them to quit.

    "noobs just want to be given things", i dont see anything in the original post's idea that sounds like gaining hp in that way is easier than washing, imo its more tedious than buying int gears and washing normally. But in the eyes of a broke dexless sin noob, it would still be a more enjoyable option than the easy but boring task of making a bishop/mage for mesos.

    I had a 11k hp NL by 2018, the only reason is because I started as an I/L for fun.
    If i started out as a ranged character, I would have just quit the server before lvl 70 after finding out about washing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 9
  9. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    This is why I ask - can anybody actually attest to being locked out of end-game content due to inadequate washing, or is the entire problem based on speculation of players thinking they need to quit their ranged accounts because of other people feeding them wrong information?

    From my own personal observation, anybody that makes it past 140+ is well aware of washing and has taken into consideration some moderate forms of it because they eventually find out it's not that hard. Whenever they complain about being locked out of content, it's usually from not being able to find a DK to HB them, but they're not content locked altogether.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Esmo
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    Esmo Pac Pinky

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    Why is this thread is still alive? Just pump 160 base + some int gear
     
  11. Jolly_Walker
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    Jolly_Walker Chronos

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    I can attest to leeching plenty of hermits to 120 selling petri leech for back in the day for 10m/hr split prices, more than a handful of them were unwashed, no base int no int gears and were screwed. I know a few LPQ friends who remake their sin and made bishops
     
  12. Jolly_Walker
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    Jolly_Walker Chronos

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    But obviously I havent interacted with new players since 2019, so i cant say whats going on now
     
  13. s0mething
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    s0mething Capt. Latanica

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    Shameless plug: https://forum.maplelegends.com/index.php?threads/should-you-hp-wash.32277/

    TLDR:
    300 hp from MoN
    300 hp from BFC
    1000 hp from tier 10 ring
    300 hp from 3 pets
    100 hp from ellin ring

    In this past anniversary event, we were able to obtain the following items:
    200 hp from event rings (100 each ring)
    100 hp from event glasses

    Total of 2,300 hp from non-essential equipments.

    According to chew's HP washing calculator, an unwashed NL will have approximately 3,853 HP at lvl 155. After accounting for the 2,300 hp from non-essential equipments, you should have a total of 6,158 HP(w/o HB) or 9,852 HP(with HB).

    If you still feel that that's not enough, you still have other alternatives such as Face Accessory scrolled for HP(~150hp) or washing out the excess MP you gained from your zhelm/deputy star/HTP (~180 to 270hp).

    This brings your HP with HB to ~10,524 hp.

    Incase there's no event glasses, I think you can use an Eye Accessory scrolled for HP (~225hp?).

    To conclude, HP WASHING IS OPTIONAL. People just choose to wash excessively because of herd mentality. I guess a lack of DKs as well :boo:
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 7
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Jolly_Walker
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    Jolly_Walker Chronos

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    No person is dumb enough to play till lvl 170+ knowing that their character will get locked out of content.
    Your point of finding an actual player who played through their ruined character to bossing levels and unable to join is just stupid.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  15. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    So you're saying that players that are buying leech prior to lvl 120 are more likely to quit? That's no news to me.

    Who's to say their character will get locked out of content? An unwashed lvl 200 4 base INT NL will end up with something like 4.8k hp, with plenty of free HP washes from passive excess MP gained from all-stat gear. With all the new additions of HP gear, what content can you say you're locked out of in 2021? 15 levels of bloodwashed hp would be more than enough to get you to that magic number.

    I redirect your position - no person is dumb enough to continue investing so much time into an unplanned character when they realize they can stop being so stubborn and figure out a way to plan a character they would actually enjoy playing. If this hypothetical moron got to lvl 170+ and still decided they didn't want to invest in some sort of late-game wash with their 2m unused NX, that's on them.

    I'm actually in favor of allowing for Sku's method so long as it's implemented for a reasonable purpose. Lvl 70 is far too early for this suggestion to even be reasonable, as is lvl 130. This suggestion makes sense for players that actually get to end-game content levels. Allowing for them to wash even before that is dumb.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. orbus
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    orbus Red Snail

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    I've detested hp washing ever since I learned it was a thing back in classic maple and I still refuse to do it, partly out of principal, and partly because it is the least fun way to play the game.
    Do you remember fun? Because it's not outfitting a character with gear worth billions, leeching them until 120+ because they can't fight, spending an entire year of vote points "fixing" their character and only then being *allowed* to play the game the way it was intended.
    The fact of the matter is that if Neckson had bothered to fix this crap like they should have this wouldn't even be a discussion, but they realized people will whale to the moon and back to abuse it despite how awful it is and so left this little mistake in, because if there's one thing you can count on it's Neckson to milk a cash cow for all its worth no matter how despicable it is. (see lucky boxes)
    To go a step even further and deliberately design end game bosses to require washing isn't just on of their lowest point, it reaches actual, literal pay to win status.

    Which is why I'm baffled that there are people that defend it, even in its current state on this server which doesn't technically require real money to do.

    I still wouldn't really like this proposition, but it's a damn bit better than the alternative of leaving the washing situation in its current state.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  17. Oradious
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    Oradious Mr. Anchor

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    Once again we have a proletariat trying to dictate what "fun" is.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Can we get back to making threads about how there aren’t enough low level grinding maps for all the new players that are supposedly joining the server?
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  19. IHealForYou
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    IHealForYou King Slime

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    I'm not sure why so many people disagree with this post.
    Can someone explain it to me?
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  20. BananaPie
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    BananaPie Selkie Jr.

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    It's cause 10k hp with hb still locks you out of some content such as verga, toad, etc. Granted some of these can be done as long as you know how to dodge, but hey who wants to put in effort in this game to deal less dmg since they need to dodge and whatnot than someone who has minimal hp and can just tank hits, right? People use the toad vs the boss argument a lot saying oh ranged shouldn't do toad if warriors can't do the boss but if you look at it - warriors by sacrificing a ton of their dmg would be able to do the boss but an unwashed ranged char even if they sacrifice everything for hp gear would be unable to toad.

    A problem I have with this suggestion is that it renders a number of existing hp gear/scrolls irrelevant - e.g. bfc becomes practically worthless (if you have the minimum hp already what use will another 300 do, coupled with its untradeable factor then there's really no point in getting this cape). Why bother scrolling rac masks for hp. The extra 200-300 wont help, just get some specs instead for more stats/dmg. I also think it is slightly unfair for warriors if it becomes the case that ranged characters can do content like toad without any dmg loss by being able to hit some minimum hp threshold without losing dmg. If warriors have to sacrifice some dmg to do the boss then I believe a minimum hp threshold should be defined where ranged has to sacrifice some dmg and wear hp gear to do toad - and that they should be able to get to said minimum hp threshold without washing.

    Don't get me wrong, though, that's not to say every item and scroll in this game needs to be worth something.
     

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