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Making HP Washing Truly Optional - a Solution

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Skuire, Apr 25, 2021.

Do you think implementing this system would be good for the future of MapleLegends?

  1. Yes

    250 vote(s)
    83.3%
  2. No

    20 vote(s)
    6.7%
  3. Maybe

    30 vote(s)
    10.0%
  1. fael
    Offline

    fael Nightshadow

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    5:58 PM
    Fael
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    SURRA
    No person is dumb enough to continue investing so much time into a PLANNED character they would actually NOT enjoy playing. That's it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. Teaddict
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    Teaddict Mushmom

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    10:58 PM
    Kamairi
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    Idk, I think zak runners will still want to have hp gear handy to let buyers use to meet HP goals etc. They won't be completely dead I don't think, though they might become slightly cheaper.
     
  3. BananaPie
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    BananaPie Selkie Jr.

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    9:58 PM
    So rather than introducing a method which would potentially reduce the market value of some hp gear why are we not thinking about just introducing more hp items (quest ring when) that will add to your hp and allow you to meet the minimum said thresholds to boss with hb?

    I just don't understand why this thread has so much traction and likes when it's just much simpler to introduce more hp gear.

    Note that the only end game boss which you cannot do as an unwashed ranged is toad because there is no way for you to dodge its attacks. Verga, pb etc you don't need to wear any hp gear just get good at dodging and knowing when you stop so you don't die in 1 hit to DR - this is not to say they're not doable at all, you just need to pay more attention. So if warriors have to sacrifice some dmg to get more accuracy for the boss, surely unwashed range can sacrifice some dmg for more hp if they want to toad (assuming more hp gear gets added which allows you to do this).
     
  4. jusin
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    jusin Red Snail

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    4:58 PM
    jusin
    Thief
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    The amount of new players joining to this day might shock you. Mind you this is anecdotal, but in my short recent time here I’ve met a significant amount of new players who immediately chose sin or archers. This has been my experience over the past few weeks by just playing the early game across a couple new chars by KPQing or just exploring on Ch.1). It would be cool to see the stats for completely new players per day or per week.

    One of them felt crushed after learning their Lv3X sin was off to a bad start, and restarted as a cleric even though sin was his favorite. Who knows how long he’ll last.

    I wasn’t aware of washing before ML because I never made it to the endgame back then (not an easy feat!). I think it’s fair to assume a good portion of new players also jump in unaware.

    In regards to the proposed solution, even if it is implemented in an especially challenging/tedious way, just knowing that your character isn’t guaranteed to be crippled goes a long way psychologically I think!
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  5. Shmoo
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    Shmoo Horny Mushroom

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    4:58 PM
    Shmoo
    Warrior
    19
    This is really the main reason to support the suggestion. Please remember HP washing is not going away ever and sku’s suggestion was never about replacing hp washing. It’s just a way to prevent people from giving up on their characters and the server in general. It can/should even be a process that’s more annoying/time-consuming than hp washing normally.

    We definitely do lose players because they feel like they ruined their characters and don’t want to remake. Really hope we could add this for them, I think it’s best for the server in the long run.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  6. damon182
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    damon182 Brown Teddy

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    Apr 13, 2021
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    4:58 PM
    SendMeDOGE
    Shadower
    please explain to me how a NL/BM/MM/sair can hit 9k hp without hb at lvl 155 for ht without washing
     
  7. damon182
    Offline

    damon182 Brown Teddy

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    Apr 13, 2021
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    4:58 PM
    SendMeDOGE
    Shadower
    Only in threads about solutions to HP washing, are people saying hitting those hp marks is 100% ok with HB. If I were to ask almost anyone in game without the context of this thread, everyone would say 'don't rely on HB to survive due to dispel mechanics'. It's completely contradictory, and most of the time a lot of the same people are saying both, just picking what to say to support their argument.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  8. xadra
    Offline

    xadra Capt. Latanica

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    Jun 6, 2017
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    4:58 AM
    Adra
    Paladin
    170
    Divide
    Found your problem

    The game was designed with people getting HB in mind
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  9. -ovv
    Offline

    -ovv Horntail

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    1:58 PM
    -ovv
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    Please explain to me why anybody needs 9k hp for HT by 155?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. eliyuh
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    eliyuh Mushmom

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    4:58 PM
    Ok let's just say you don't need to hp wash and it really is completely optional. Even then, everyone still does it right? What's wrong with giving an alternative method to those who want to gain more hp, but also want to actually play their character during mid-lv? And there's also the people that either didn't know about it until they were a higher lv or just skipped out on it and later regretted it, what's wrong with giving them a way to earn hp?
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  11. s0mething
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    s0mething Capt. Latanica

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    May 4, 2019
    1:58 PM
    Herd mentality. :yay:

    Talking about HP washing in ML is like talking about politics IRL. You can provide as much rationale examples as you want, but most of them already have their minds made up.

    This guy is a prime example. It's like HB wasn't made to be a supporting skill used to supplement players who do not have sufficient HP. Again, some people have their minds made up already and are reluctant to feedback even when solutions are presented to them.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. BananaPie
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    BananaPie Selkie Jr.

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    9:58 PM
    There's no drawback whatsoever with this method. The new unwashed ranged char will now have hp to do toad with hb without having to sacrifice dmg gear to get more hp. Figure a way to allow warriors to do the boss without having to sacrifice a crap ton of dmg to get accuracy and I'm all on board with this idea.

    Otherwise I still stand by the idea of introducing more hp equips/quest ring/etc so that if an unwashed ranged char wants to toad they have to sacrifice some dmg too. Care not about verga/nameless/pb etc cause you can dodge attacks.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. -ovv
    Offline

    -ovv Horntail

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    -ovv
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    Because making something easier is not always the best solution. I can guarantee you that almost every single player that continued in this server first started out with a character that was unwashed/underwashed (myself included). It's possible to enjoy mid-game with a burner account if that's something you really want to do, but you shouldn't change the entire scope of the game because of newbie's preferences. Also, if restarting a lvl 80 character is that big of a hinderance to keep you playing, you're in for a rude awakening when you get to lvl 120+ and think grinding on your single target attacker is going to be all roses and rainbows.

    If you've been a part of the server long enough, you'd know that staff has added tons of methods to attain HP - whether it be through permanent BiS fixtures like MoN, BFC, Tier10 MB rings, etc., or through events like Zombie Rings, or most recently, through new HP scrolls.

    Also, as the game progresses, a lot of misinformation about bosses and boss damage get discovered. When Pink Bean was first released, the entire server was uncertain about what the minimum HP was required to survive. Will Pink Bean be exactly the same as GMS, or will MapleLegends balance team release custom content? That was always the mystery that kept players on this server anxious and excited. As squads got better and better, they observed and learned that the minimum HP required wasn't the exorbitant amount they had initially assumed. Strategies like pinning and holding were discovered to increase the chances of survival as well and to allow for smoother runs. These are all things balance team/staff probably has direct information for (regarding boss damage), and that mystery would just be non-existent if they released all the information upfront. This is also why staff can say things like "HP washing is optional" without the players having leverage to argue against it. The assumption is - if the players have not tried everything, then their argument holds no ground. What is meta is not absolute - there is a possibility that new strategies may emerge and yet again lower the minimum hp required. Pink Bean is the most recent curveball for the server, but the same thing applied for Horntail and Neo Tokyo bosses over the past few years.

    This is why I find people who complain about certain limitations in this game to be naive and defeatist. This is a game where challenges are meant to be explored and strategies meant to be discovered by the players, not outright handed to by the staff.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  14. eliyuh
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    eliyuh Mushmom

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    4:58 PM
    I don't think anyone here is asking for it to be easier. It's just asking to play the game a different way. Leeching to 120 is so much easier for just about every class in the game so gaining the ability to grind at your full potential during those levels is more of a preference rather than making it "easier" than the current meta. I have a mage I could use to leech my character all the way to 120 if I wanted, but I'd rather fund it with gear (not int gear) and play it without struggling later down the road because I chose to actually play the game.
    This suggestion would be less efficient and less effective than the meta but it would be much more appealing to those that are turned off by hp washing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  15. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    This just isn't true. This would just shift the meta to incorporate both daily MP gain along with the current sweaty methods to make washing faster altogether. This lowers the overall investment required to create an end-game hermit.

    Not to mention - there are ways to cheese the restrictions by holding onto fresh AP while having a shitload of INT.
    Do you really think someone wouldn't park a 400 int NL, farm a ton of daily MP, and then continue washing after it's reached the allotted cap?

    People already wash to 12k+ hp. Do you think that all of a sudden, people will start settling for 9.5k hp?

    Having the quest be available to lvl 180+ stops most people from cheesing and gives only those who are short on HP a chance to catch up.

    Last point - I think there's absolutely no reason to allow for an easier wash for any content prior to lvl 150+. Most range characters will have enough HP to survive whatever boss they need using the current methods. Relying on HB is a core part of the game and shouldn't be dismissed. Neither should utilizing HP bonus items and as a last resort, blood washing.

    Pippy brings up a good point that blood wash shouldn't be penalized with maximum HP loss with a re-wash. That is a suggestion I'd be in full support of.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. fael
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    fael Nightshadow

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    5:58 PM
    Fael
    Night Lord
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    SURRA
    I think the problem isn't people that already washed. My concern is about new players that are quitting every day.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  17. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    What new players?
     
  18. fael
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    fael Nightshadow

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    Fael
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  19. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    -ovv
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    Can you prove intent to quit entirely on HP washing?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. IHealForYou
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    IHealForYou King Slime

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    10:58 PM
    LegendKnight, IHealForYou
    Dark Knight
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    Losers
    I think this mentality is a major problem in the HP washing discussion threads.
    Not being able to do HT without hb at 155 is NOT THE PROBLEM.

    The problem is new players quitting once they find out you need to HP wash your ranged character, which involves adding a whole bunch of INT to it / grinding mesos for int gear, and saving up tons of NX. The problem is that you have to vote for months, and make a mage first, to be able to start playing on a ranged character and feel good about it.

    Those are the things that need to be solved!
     
    • Agree Agree x 10

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