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Making HP Washing Truly Optional - a Solution

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Skuire, Apr 25, 2021.

Do you think implementing this system would be good for the future of MapleLegends?

  1. Yes

    250 vote(s)
    83.3%
  2. No

    20 vote(s)
    6.7%
  3. Maybe

    30 vote(s)
    10.0%
  1. KloudKnight
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    KloudKnight Brown Teddy Retired Staff

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    There's a lot to consider when discussing these potential changes, but the first and foremost thing to consider with washing is that it always is and always has been optional. I can't speak for everyone, but I imagine not all players were washing in the original game due to the steep costs of washing back then. I also imagine that we were able to complete the content available without washing such as Horntail and Pink Bean.

    Our current washing culture is not a problem with the game, it's a problem with the players
    . Many of the players are encouraging this behaviour, but there is good reason to it. Washing can allow players to access content at earlier or provide them with higher stats late game. However, the spread of the method has lead to the formation of a malicious meme (pre-internet meaning). It acts a gatekeeper to content, discourages freedom of play and encourages unhealthy player behaviour. The difference between washing and not washing is when can you play what.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 8
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. HollyCrap
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    HollyCrap Capt. Latanica

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    You just never give up MapleF8MapleF8MapleF8MapleF8
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. HollyCrap
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    HollyCrap Capt. Latanica

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    So basically I need to be around lvl 200 and have blood washed some lvls to be able to do pink bean?
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  4. yurain
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    yurain Windraider

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    5:49 PM
    YUrain
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    No comments on the suggestion, because after spending months and year(s) on the forums OnionDead

    Just want to applause you for top tier communication like this.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  5. Hiyo
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    Hiyo Headless Horseman Retired Staff

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    12:49 PM
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    just dodge 4Head, on a more serious note KloudKnightKloudKnight isn’t entirely wrong, a lot of factors (culture and ease of access are a big part of it) come into play as why washing is somewhat mandatory right now and probably will remain that way even if this suggestion makes it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  6. Lirbo
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    Lirbo Slimy

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    Shiiii this is ACTUALLY good!
    Well done, Kimmy time to introduce this to the game!

    Regarding the washing abuse, it is possible to measure the Character's extra MP and do the calculation that if his current HP+Extra MP can reach like 2k higher than the quest cap then they cant participate
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Voxtagrams
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    Voxtagrams Headless Horseman

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    Yay, this!
    This was explained perfectly.
    OnionCheer
     
  8. Esmo
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    Esmo Pac Pinky

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    you all should listen to ovv beyond the 15k health is only by doing mp wash and not this method.

     
  9. Voxtagrams
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    Voxtagrams Headless Horseman

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    I don't think people here double wash though, thats the thing.
     
  10. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    i think u kind of missed the point.

    some people find 12k HP not even enough now, and demand more. to obtain such HP, its more realistic to MP wash than to pump more INT
     
  11. carebu
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    carebu Brown Teddy

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    Isn't this completely untrue though? Pink Bean was never defeated on GMS pre-BB. That means, before potential stats, PB was effectively impossible, or at least failed a thousand times over or something, even with a plethora of level 200 characters near maximum gear. (PB was released I think 9months before BB? And the first guild to clear it off events was some guild on Windia? At least according to the last deep google searching I did; I heard JP may have done it in a similar time frame but I have no idea if that was pre-BB or not) And PB is a struggle on ML even with washed people, and thirty minutes bonus time. Sure they could do it without the 30minutes bonus, but definitely not without the washing.

    Statistically PB probably checks out and it may be defeated one in a thousand runs without washing, but goodluck with that obscene unconquerable content where 80% of your raid gets 1hit by everything.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
  12. Voxtagrams
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    Voxtagrams Headless Horseman

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    Thats what I basically said lol
     
  13. MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    A large majority of attacks in PB are 1/1 so you could survive even with only 500 HP (corsairs do this already in PB). The high damage attacks are both dodgeable but can be fairly hard to pull off consistently. On top of that one of the attacks is completely avoidable if your squad keeps good agro (PB has to be facing right a majority of the run). Add 1 wheel, a few bishops, and a few buccs and you end up having a lot of res allowing you to die a few times and not completely screw the run. The reason PB is so much easier in ML is more due to the increased timer (90 minutes vs 60) and how PB gets broken very consistently in general. Damage reflect for instance would often not proc for up to 5 minutes and you'd need a GM to babysit your run to keep fixing the DR.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Cak33
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    Cak33 Headless Horseman

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    based on yr words, to me it sounds like people wants 15k HP but dont double wash. instead adds more int
    what im trying to say is, according to the metas, they dont add more int. they double wash.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  15. iPippy
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    iPippy Nightshadow

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    If we had ways to ensure pb faces the proper way, then pb would definitely be doable with low hp. Even now while we can mostly keep it facing right, an unwashed NL can get through a run. They might have to *gasp* pay attention to the fight and maybe even flash jump out of danger, but we have seen low hp NLs slay the bean. The earlier posts hit the nail on the head that extreme washing is mostly player culture driven. More hp means earlier bossing (155 HT is the norm now), safer runs with no DKs and more damage uptime (NLs today pretty much hold TT in the corner and face tank all boss attacks with more durability and less repositioning than warriors), and cheaper runs (spend fewer pots because %hp pots are OP). Even an unwashed bucc with hb *can* do pb without being able to take touch, but it's quite dangerous and mostly prevents us from focusing on our role. Though that is also user driven magnet alleviates much of that concern imo.

    There are only a couple fights that cannot be tanked with a reasonable amount of washing and hb, and many of those fights offer ways to dodge/duck the (intended imo) one shots on glass cannon classes. Toad stands as an outlier, but that was not designed for those classes in the first place (Accuracy washing so warriors can do The Boss without losing all their damage when?).

    Tl;dr Player culture has dictated the "wash or character ruined" because HP is a powerful stat that makes brain dead mushroom game even easier. It cant be removed not just because people's efforts would be undermined, but also because its existence has already affected class design/balance.

    You arent optimal if you cant keep attacking through a nameless claw w/o hb, because that's lower dpm.
     
    • Agree Agree x 11
  16. xadra
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    xadra Capt. Latanica

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    This is exactly it. Hp washing is really non-optional for those who want to do the most high end bosses while not paying attention to HP, not needing to have HB, and not needing to dodge any attacks.

    This so-called culture seems to have been borne out of many maplers' fundamental extreme min maxing and DPM45 epeen competing natures. Then we, the same maplers make the guides and answer new players on discord and badabing badaboom washing is "ruining the server" even though you only really need it to go do the most minmaxed endgame stuff.

    My rant aside tho, this suggestion seems sound, although it feels like the 'max potential hp' thing might be hard to code into the game for an NPC to handle?
     
  17. FatSloth
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    FatSloth Windraider Retired Staff

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    If it makes you feel any better there are plenty of more casual bossing groups that wont care that you are missing like 60 magic.
    I definitely get where you are coming from but I dont think you should be as discouraged about it. A large part of the 'forced meta' is how vocal some players are about lukless being an absolute necessity when in reality its not.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  18. Oradious
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    Oradious Mr. Anchor

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    Adding on to the "wash or character ruined" culture that has made even 12-13k HP on ranged characters meme'd on, it seems that there have been a good number of players that have flexed their "ranged characters" that have north of 300 or 400 int or even more on Discord & forums. They seem to be heavily MP washed, heavily handicapped and stuck below lvl 150.

    But how many of them actually see it all the way through and finish washing their characters (no base INT, no huge amounts of excess MP, etc)? After a certain threshold, washing more is mainly for flexing purposes. And if you're gonna flex, why flex a half-assed incomplete dumpster 500 INT intlord or intmaster? I can easily do the same on my BM too and take a screenshot.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Work Great Work x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  19. FatSloth
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    FatSloth Windraider Retired Staff

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    The amount of useless NLs with my hp in zak runs is disgusting. I stopped doing non-friend zak runs pretty much exclusively for this reason :/
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. -ovv
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    -ovv Horntail

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    Having excess MP isn't a bad thing, but people wasting NX converting their excess mp into hp before they wash out INT is the ultimate meme. They're delaying their end of wash for no reason.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3

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