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Dark Knight bitching thread

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Alyosha, Nov 21, 2019.

  1. Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Personally I love the class, but it does come with many caveats especially when it comes to bossing, and what one can reasonably expect to do.

    DKs can thrive when it comes to the general killing of mobs, it's probably what they're best suited to at this point. Spear Crusher deals great, consistent damage, with the added mastery from Beholder you can expect to 1ko most mobs up to around Skelegons/Petrifighters once you hit the end game, and 3ko anything at Shaolin given the accuracy. It's quite slow but at the same time very effective, and as a mixed Pole-arm/Spear DK the speed of farming can become exceptional given you 1ko the mob with Pole-arm Fury.

    Given the fact that there aren't really any mobs that hit above ~4500, DKs can generally farm anything they'd like without risking death. This means that pet pots can stay at 15%, or 4500 HP at 30k, giving them the same access as everyone else when it comes to general killing, with a pet able to prevent death in almost all circumstances around the maple world.

    DKs also thrive in HT, where the rewards generally outweigh the cost in Reindeer Milk and other potions, especially because those potions are only needed for about a third of the fight. Generally for every Horntail I spend around 700k-1mil for Reindeer Milk(5k heal) and Ice Creams(2k heal), on top of the Ginseng Roots(40% heal) and Sorcerer Elixers(1500 MP). Overall it puts the cost of killing HT at around 1.4-1.7mil generally on a DK. It's probably the highest cost of any class[Bishop might be close] to effectively kill HT but at the same time it's still manageable and still worth fighting.

    Personally I find HT to be the most fun content in the game. On a DK its challenging, but not impossible, and there aren't any random mechanics to kill you[Those deserve their own section...], with enough knowledge you can master a lot of the nuances of Maple.

    But for every other boss worth killing in the game, there are many issues.

    Generally the first real boss that people kill. A DK can do well against Zakum Arms but afterwards everything is fairly awful.

    -There's a good chance you won't be put in the main party. A lot of people just want the DK around for HBing zhelm buyers and if that's the case you can't expect any real exp. Even if you are in the main party a lot of the time the rest of the party wants healing, so they send you to the other half of Zakum where getting knocked back puts you in danger of dying to touch damage.
    -You can't face tank Zakum's bodies because you need to stay in zerk range. This means that you will be getting stunned often and if you are away from the bishop you will be using 100-150+ All Cures during the fight.
    -Getting stunned is a massive DPM decrease, one that other warriors can dodge by face-tanking Zakum the whole fight, Shads can use i-frames, Shifter, and high avoid to dodge, and NLs also have their Shifter and high avoid. DKs are left with the other ranged characters in constant stuns. They can try to potion up->rush body->exit body but overall that still leads to a large dip in DPM from correcting yourself.

    Another of the first bosses people kill. The first 2 bodies are a snoozefest but the third has awful damage for DKs to try to pot.

    -There is no way to reasonably pot for the third body. Because his close range magic attack hits around 5-6k, and bodying him will hit you for around 7k, you need to leave pet pot above that, and there are no cost effective potions in the game to accomplish that. So it's generally best to leave pet pot at 25% unless you want to use a ton of Reindeer Milk and spend 5-7k mesos on every hit. Using Ginseng Roots to heal will leave you with up to 19.5k HP, which will ruin zerk but also only cost ~1k per hit.

    CWKPQ is decent but there are moments where the DK can just randomly die in the boss fight.

    -When the Warrior boss buffs himself he begins to deal ~5k-6k touch damage. Again, using the only cost effective pot could lead to just dying due to the fact that you'd want pet pot at 15% to zerk properly. You could stick it at 20%, but there'd still be instances when you aren't zerking and because he doesn't always deal the higher damage you end up wasting a lot of potential unless you manual pot every time you see yourself around 6k. The buff is fairly random so one minute you could be okay and the next dead. There might be an animation for the warrior buff but it's hard to see in the kill pile.

    Pianus good. Just don't rush the boomers.

    ok boomer

    Pap good.
    Krexel is lol
    Ravanna good
    Samurai good, but his lightning max hit is around 5k, but it has a fairly long animation you can prepare for

    Neo-Tokyo time

    -I didn't see a very large difference in DPM when it came to zerking and attempting to preserve my HP by ducking and just outright tanking the attacks without zerk. I guess the difference is that one is a lot more work. For the third body you have to dodge the attacks, so I guess that's the only one you should really zerk and dodge at. Other melee classes have the benefit of being able to tank and continue fighting, so their DPM is significantly higher there.
    - Verga maxes around 10-11k damage? Not sure anymore but that's what I kept my HP above, and since I didn't want to spend significant amounts of money I chose to dodge the attacks. Tanking attacks and potting back to zerk would make for effective DPM but at the same time would cost a significant amount of money to accomplish, likely 2.5mil+ per kill in supplies.

    Dunas is actually fine.

    -There are a lot of low hitting attacks and a few high hitting ones so it isn't so expensive to be dumping Reindeer Milk down your throat, and the high hitting attacks generally synergize well with pet pot anyways, so when you're struck with a big attack it brings you low enough that the Ginseng Root activates and you don't need the Milks and you stay within zerk range.
    -Watching for Damage Reflect while also watching your HP is doable, and sort of fun at the same time. It makes for a decent challenge.

    Nibergen is okay, but I'd like to test him a bit more before saying anything really certain about him.

    -Standing in the cloud and attacking can lead you to take 10-11k damage randomly, happened once during the third body and there isn't really anything that can be done about it. His model just moves low enough during a key point in the iframes and just instantly KOs you. Positioning elsewhere may help, I haven't tried it yet.
    -Sitting in the cloud is generally good for most of the fight because you're just constantly taking low amounts of damage that gets healed by Ginseng Roots. In that the fight is good, it's just in randomly dying from iframe shenanigans that makes it awful.

    There's no reason to even try zerking him currently.

    -The entire fight you're bodying him, tanking the 5-6k damage and not being in the range of his magic claw attack, capable of dealing around 18k damage
    -It's possible to zerk him, but you'd be spending around 5mil+ for the kill from all of the Reindeer Milks.

    Haven't killed him yet. I heard it's possible to zerk a bit by timing his attacks though, but that's a fairly large hassle and micromanaging HP takes time and DPM away regardless.

    If you bothered to read most of my ramblings you'd probably find one major thing linking most of these bosses together - the fact that zerking is possible but at the same time not viable to accomplish. This is because our choices for potions are either 12,000 HP for 2,100 mesos, 5,000 HP for 5,600[5,000 at the Haunted Mansion] mesos, and 2,000 HP for 2,300 mesos.

    To continue zerking in most places it's necessary to spend 5,000 mesos to heal 5,000 HP because it isn't possible to stay in zerk range in most places by spending 2,100 mesos on 12,000 HP.

    Personally I'd like to see the Triangular Sushi(plum) added to the potion shop at the Ninja Castle.

    https://maplelegends.com/lib/use?id=2022007

    They're already dropped by Nintos but farming any significant amount of them isn't worth the effort.

    For the most part I don't really believe that Dark Knights really need any major buffs, they just need a sustainable method of healing themselves. At this point I don't want to be any stronger, I just want to play the content in the game with my friends without being punished. Much of the time it feels as though I am locked out of content because I believe that it's personally too expensive to play.

    With Triangular Sushi a DK would be able to set their pet HP at 35%, and trigger once HP is lower than 10,500. That leaves a very fair amount of room between most of the max hits stated above and almost completely prevents the random luck deaths of Nibergen and CWKPQ. It's a lower healing potion too, and with hits over 6k damage you will still need to manually pot, likely with Melting Cheese and Ice Cream. But it would lower the costs significantly enough that it's fair to play almost every boss in the game.

    yeehaw

    DRK GANG
     
    • Agree Agree x 14
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  2. MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    I do agree more potion selection would be amazing but zerking isn’t even my major complaint anymore. A lot of the bosses you can react to the timing of attacks and use ginseng just fine. I frequently sit at around 5-6k hp fighting HT wings and just react to their animation. Same at nameless, verga, and toad if the bishop dies/dc.

    My major complaint is how I feel practically forced to play my bishop to improve my drk. This is because sky skis are gachapon only which just doesn’t make any sense especially now that NT is buffed and those weapons are dropping. I don’t see how it’s fair that people can farm NT and get their end game weapon (at pretty damn good drop rates based on fm) but I’m forced to rely on gachapon tickets dropping and then getting a ski from perion. I’d also love to join my friends for bossing and playing on my drk but it doesn’t make any sense when I have to farm gachapon to get my weapon.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. skazey
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    skazey Mano

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    doesnt beholder healing passively heal you but not if youre above the zerk threshold?
    wouldlnt that be good enough
     
  4. Zooploop
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    Zooploop Master Chronos

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    For Nibergen standing in the right corner (where range usually go) means you never risk touch damage. Of course you need someone on the left side to maintain the aggro. Sometimes the rocket explosion will also graze you on the left side.
     
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  5. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    the amount of damage you take vs getting healed every 5 secs, isnt the best thing. the beholder is only good at specific bosses/grinding
    example: I never use any pots during HT preheads, cuz i know how much it hits, so i let it hit me so the ginseng root auto pot heals me back to 15k , if i know its gunna 1shot me (if im under 3k hp) , then im gunna use 1 melted cheese. but most of the time, i just let autopot do it. the same for samurai
     
  6. akashsky
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    akashsky Horntail

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    at zakum , I often Take Aggro from monsters to avoid zakum stun. I think dk could do something similar, or tank main body by ducking when the pillars come crashing down
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. OP
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    Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    I wonder if a Timeless/Reverse Spear from the hardest boss in the game will finally be able to outdo some random winter sportsgear you win randomly from a capsule machine. SeemsGood

    I forgot how awful it is because I'm still satisfied with my Sky Skis. I don't think anyone has bought or sold 120+ attack skis in months, to the point that B>120-125 attack skis is memed. Skis should at least be put in the winter raffle if they aren't added elsewhere.

    And mob invincibility for Zakum doesn't work when Crusher hits 3 targets, the mobs explode upon impact. The platform for ducking is also far away from the body, I don't think there's even time to walk back there before the stun comes, especially with Crusher's long cast time.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    Please don’t make drks rely on events for the best polearm and spear. It’s bad enough that purple surfboard is locked behind summer events instead of being available year round (pianus drop maybe??). If it’s me I’d add skis to samurai and toad. Samurai is probably a little easier than crow but comparable imo and toad just to match ST drop.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  9. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    he means, when you are zerking, duck and get the dmg from body and u get iframes to dodge stuns/skill locks
     
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  10. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Toad would sound better imo
     
  11. MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    As cool as adding skis to any boss would be I don't think toad alone is enough unless maybe toad is changed to 2x daily. I'd be surprised if more than 10 toads are killed per week which wouldn't have much of an impact. Not to mention it'd still make sky skis the hardest end game weapon to achieve imo. I don't see why a spear has to be the hardest weapon in the game to obtain...

    Also just want to add what's currently available on the market for skis.

    107att 0 slots 19.9m
    107att 0 slots 10m
    106att 5 slots 150m
    115att 0 slots 180m
    98att clean 46m
    95att clean 60m
    99att 0 slots 30m
    116att 0slots 200m
    100att 0 slots 4m
    99att clean 100m
    91att clean 6m
    118att 0 slots 700m

    If ski's can't be added to a boss can we at least increase the gach rates at perion? I've used over 400 gach and have gotten an 89, 91, and 95att ski. If gach is going to continue to be the only method to get skis it should at least be at an increased rate.
     
    • Agree Agree x 8
  12. OP
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    Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    [​IMG]

    I decided to personally demonstrate the divide between Sky Skis and speed 7 spears.

    I put both of them on exactly equal footing. The Sky Ski was 100 attack and 3 strength, and the Pinaka was 112 attack and 3 str. (During the Sky Ski test I downgraded my gloves from 14 attack to 13 attack to compensate for the Sky Ski having 1 extra attack over clean perfect.) To simulate perfect weapons on bear with slightly better gear I chose to use a heartstopper for the test. It took me a few tests to get the @dpm -> stopper -> attacking down but I reset until I was satisfied that both trials were done ideally. Another thing to note is that the Flairgrave/Speargrave has 3 more attack than the Faltizan, but the Pinaka I scrolled for the test did quite badly and I could only get 3/7 60s to pass. If I had 4/6 pass I would have used a 100% scroll on the last slot.

    Total attack of the Sky Ski - 200
    Total attack of the speed 7 spear - 213
    Total strength and dex - 1066 and 78

    Sky Ski DPM -> 20.29mil
    Speed 7 DPM -> 19.1mil

    This gives the Sky Ski an overall 6.2% DPM advantage over a slow spear in perfect conditions. If the attack is increased any further, say with perfect equips/Apples, the divide will continue to grow as the proportion of attacks between the two weapons continues to diminish. There's even a fair gap in quality when comparing 121 att/13 str skis with no attack pot vs a 127 att/10 str speed 7 weapon with Beholder buff(Essentially making it 142 att/10 str compared to the skis.) The Sky Skis were still able to outperform a slow spear at a 20 attack deficit, and it would likely take ~123-125 attack clean on a slow weapon to be able to compete.

    Sky Skis are the only real option if you want to break into the end game. The test I did wasn't completely perfect, but it's likely within any rounding errors. None of the new weapons released are even worth using, so currently DKs can only rely on the gachapon to get their end game weapon.

    Frankly I'm lucky to have found mine for sale when I did. Nowadays the free market is incredibly dry for skis and there aren't any options for end game DKs. The Stonetooth market is similar but at the same time Heroes and Paladins have other options to pursue that are also valid, in Claymores/NT weapons/RKs/Crushed Skulls/shields. For the late game Dark Knight there aren't any differing options that aren't inherently inferior.
     
    • Great Work Great Work x 3
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  13. Midnight
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    Midnight Skelegon

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    As a casual player I can't can't add much useful opinion here, but I do know that the end game weapon issue with Dk's did demotivate me from continuing my main as a DK. Which sent me on a path of excessively MP washing thieves that I probably won't get past 3rd job.

    Edit-
    That wasn't the only reason though. I was under the impression that DKs could potentially deal the most single target dps out of all three warriors. :banghead:
    My DK (dragon knight lol) is a really good funding class though. I would totally recommend it for someone that doesn't want the mage life but still needs funding.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Apuntar
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    Apuntar Orange Mushroom

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    Player skill issues for a gang of them

    The zakum complaint is such a meme, you can place yourself at max crusher distance and just hit rush when the stun falls on you to avoid being stunned

    The warrior boss in CWKPQ makes a noise before it buffs itself.
    Just power crash it and go back to watching netflix

    But I wouldn't mind the sushi that would be pretty cash money, but not even a big deal if we don't get it.

    The sky ski issue is high key the only problem but not a big one, if anything make the speargrave(107)max attack clean, Normal (6) and call it a day or maybe tweak the number slightly higher or lower after dps testing.

    The reasoning is allowing Drk's the chance to farm a weapon better than sky ski's that's on par with the 1hand spear grave for warriors that's the same speed as a RK.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
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  15. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    Can confirm, the max atk speargraive is about 500k dpm less than a max atk sky ski when they are both maxed out. and tbh thats not really a huge huge issue, unless you really want to care about DPM. for me, i just wanna do higher lines+range, but its just about the same \o/
     
  16. OP
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    Alyosha
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    Alyosha Skelegon Retired Staff

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    The Speargrave would be useful if it were given the same treatment as the 1h melee weapons. Speed 6 with a 125 dex requirement to equip. Maybe a few less attack as well, capping at 110-112 or something.

    Currently dex is pretty mediocre on Dark Knights where accuracy scrolls tend to give more of a buff for cheaper. I really don't see much of a reason to optimize any dex gears after hitting like 200-210 accuracy, which is doable with 4 base dex quite easily.
     
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  17. KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    The thing with DK is that it is a pretty awesome class and I really love playing as one. The issue comes from the risk, commitment/reward ratio is a bit unfair in my opinion. You use more pots and need to control your HP in order to do less DPS than the rest of the warriors, I could even say if it is not the most expensive class to boss as, its one of the most expensive potwise , Berserk is not hard to manage once you get used to using it, it becomes second nature after a lot of time playing the class, but you are still putting more work and mesos into doing what the other warriors can do easier. The other 2 warrior classes have a lot better defenses and better damage for less pot usage and less risk of dying. I kinda wanted a small buff on Crusher to they would do a bit more damage without overtaking the other 2 warriors so the risk is more worth. But well the strongest 1vs1 DPS in the game is as well the easiest class to play in the server
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  18. MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    A 11-13 attack increase over skis would be pretty insane I think. I was thinking we could also buff the stormshear from cwkpq and make that a normal 6 weapon maybe with a few less attack. Basically a counterpart to crushed skulls and that also lets people keep the NT spear as an upgrade over faltizan if somebody wants a slow spear.
     
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  19. KurayamiLove
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    KurayamiLove Skelegon

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    You gotta munch the numbers to properly buff a spear to make it Normal 6. Faster spears scale-up dmg even more if you get other buffs beside w.att, like SE. If you want a better DK class I would think of buffing the skill rather than buffing one kind of spear.
    Also lets buff HB to be 200 secs, 155 is an ugly number.
     
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  20. MrPresident
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    MrPresident Capt. Latanica

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    I think the idea with buffing spear speed is so we have a way to not rely on gachapon for our best weapon. Either make a “farmable” 6 speed spear or buff the attack on NT spear so that it’s stronger than a sky ski instead of equal/slightly worse.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

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