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MapleLegends' future economy solution

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by DivineArrow, Dec 6, 2017.

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  1. DivineArrow
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    DivineArrow Horny Mushroom

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    The meso generation in this game at the moment is at its peak, this will lead to the economy of the server crashing down later on in the future.
    At the moment, meso is being gained while barely any meso is leaving the game.
    The ways mesos are being destroyed in the game at the moment are:
    1. Taxi/Ships(Transportation).
    2. Potions.
    3. Mount quests.
    4. Weapons/Armory(If any1 even buys these).

    The ways mesos are generated into the game:
    1. Killing any mob.
    2. Some of the quests.

    As every other game with a similiar currency system, this server will be going into a phase of gachapon items being the real currency of the game (White scrolls/Chaos scrolls/30% Scrolls)
    if we want to avoid meso losing its value as currency, I suggest we make a way to destroy meso( meso sink), so more meso leaves the game so it can at least try to be equal to the amount of meso being generated.

    Some suggestions that come to mind is:

    1.NX Items for mesos, this will give no advantage to any1 since its purely asthetic,
    and that way meso have some kind of way to leave the game instead of being kept in character storage, although, they will have to be untradeable and expiring as well .

    2.AP resets for mesos(I don't support it that much, but it is a meso sink),
    Untradeable ap resets will keep meso leaving the game(HUGE demand)
    so the generated meso might not keep up.

    3.Random Box in the cash shop that costs a certain amount of meso,
    that will give a random nx item (with a chance for a rare item that does not exist in CS).

    I'd like to see some more suggestions for a way to have meso leave the game because as it is, meso is just not gonna be a real currency later on for the server.
    don't see the current situation, but how it will turn later, some people told me before
    the server is alright as it is right now.
    That might be true, but it won't make the situation in the future less of a problem
    better avoid it sooner than later :)
     
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  2. thugric
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    thugric Capt. Latanica Retired Staff

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    increase tax rates on everything!!!!!!
     
  3. Rizset
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    Rizset Mano

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    Nice suggestions, I thought this was a potential issue too when gobys were initially touched and nerfed for the better of the server. There seems to be a tremendous increase in the number of mesos that exist from when I initially played. This probably has to do with the fact that the active player base has doubled since I started and total player base by at least triple. Feelsbadman, fishy beat me to it x.x.
     
  4. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    If more mesos is made than being lost aren't items supposed to be getting more expensive? Its not something I am personally noticing, but I don't look at literally every single item out there.
     
  5. OP
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    DivineArrow
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    DivineArrow Horny Mushroom

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    No, that will make meso less common= more valueable.
    the more u have of one thing, the less value it has
    that is exactly why in every other game that the admins didn't pay attention to the problem, the gach items took over and were the actual currency of the game
    also, items are supposed to be expensive, so the meso will be the trading for it and not whitescrolls/chaoses for other items.
    ws/cs are endgame items that shouldnt be easily achieved
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
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  6. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    How will an item not be used as currency when its much more expensive? If something is extremely expensive let's say over 2.1b it will only be used more as a currency because it can be used nicely to bypass the 2.1b limit

    Its 6 AM atm here though so maybe I am not wake enough to understand what you mean =P
     
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  7. OP
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    DivineArrow
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    DivineArrow Horny Mushroom

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    Well, I get your point which is also why I'm looking for more suggestions.
    nerfing goby was not enough to make meso generated be equal to meso spent.
    so would u just say that the server should stay as it is and let the gach items control the economy?
    look at the old times of the server , whitescrolls and chaoses did not control and were not traded for items(or barely) but they were expensive.
    the point is, they won't become a currency because theyre super expensive (or atleast supposed to be)
     
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  8. Nrii
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    Nrii Brown Teddy

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    Can't say I like many of the suggestions as I don't think they'd fit in legends (meso for AP reset), but megaphones for meso seems pretty innocuous to me
     
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  9. Rizset
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    Rizset Mano

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    hmmm so if you follow a concept of supply and demand. There used to be a over supply of mesos and a high demand for end game items like PAC/PGC/WS/CS so they basically all effectively doubled in price. But the supply for legendary items couldn't match it because those items are all strictly from gacha, but with the recent adjustment to make legendary drops more common, they have been more attainable but they still wont be able to match demand of players as some people can make enough mesos to fund those legendary items in 1-2 days. As the player base approaches the endgame other items essentially become obsolete such as 60% scrolls. Essentially due to more mesos being in the game, a lot of things have become much more accessible then they used to be and old standards are completely gone. For example WGs at 8-10 watt used to be pretty standard and 12 was "good", but now you want like 12-14 watt wgs as a standard and anything above that is considered "good".

    There are also a lot of players who just hold a lot of mesos on hand or in bank, I for one at some point had 750m in pure mesos and I didn't really do much to get them o-o...
     
  10. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    I am not saying I want that but I also don't agree back then cs/ws wasnt used for mesos.

    in 2016 a chaos was 150m+ and if a new person would get it hes instant rich forever since its sold for mesos.

    So while mesos sinks may need happen I disagree that less expensive = it being used as currency
     
  11. OP
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    DivineArrow
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    DivineArrow Horny Mushroom

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    I'm not really good at giving solutions to this , because I have never seen a server come back from this(we aren't near that point)
    I just posted this in hopes of finding a better idea that'd give u an easier time controlling the economy :D
    But I definitely see your point kimmy, but better expensive items and coin as currency rather than items as currency and useless coin(meso)
    for the gach example, it is lottery based(RNG) so its only reasonable that he'd get rich from being lucky jsut as scrolls work as well.
    1 guy getting rich from selling a white scroll won't break the game.
    but if a new player comes and only items are currency= there is nothing he can do about it
     
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  12. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    I still dont understand what you mean with only items is currency. Care to explain further?
     
  13. Fishy
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    Fishy Skelegon Retired Staff

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    I personally feel like, the RNG and buff of legendary items, like Willy said are ruining the economy. literally 5mins ago the same dude just pulled our 2 chaos scrolls back to back, and then a different person just pulled a chaos scroll. As "Legendary" and "rare" these items are. alot of them are being out. when in reality, a grinding game like Maplestory, should take quite some time to achieve such items/end game. i know alot of people want to reach end game quickly, but i feel like everyone is leveling alot faster and obtaining items/equips faster.
     
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  14. aiko
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    aiko Slime

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    I think the problem Dan is trying to say is that eventually (concerning a world with no sufficient meso sinks to combat the rising meso generation) mesos will lose their purchasing power and thus the prices of end-game items will become increasingly high. As mesos lose their worth, players will eventually begin to only trade items for other items as they will not feel that mesos will have an equivalent value.
     
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  15. Nise
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    Nise Supervisor Staff Member Supervisor Game Moderator

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    Aight let's summarize this in just simple facts and without all the technical mumbo jumbo
    • There's a surplus of mesos that are in our economy atm (because of 24/7 goby farmers + increased Legendary gach drop rate)
      • Note: leeching or helm/pendant services doesn't affect meso generation, cus we're just trading already existing mesos with each other
    • At the same time, prices for everything is decreasing (eg. attack wg prices & zak helm prices - people are selling em for 10m now.. f3)
    What does this mean? There's an unbalance in the economy. @Kimmy: you're right in saying that with surplus mesos, prices should be inflating instead of deflating. But, surplus of mesos & inflation doesn't happen immediately together. What Divine is saying is that there is a surplus of mesos, so inflation will happen later on.

    Once the inflation happens & lets say WS is like 500m +, then what matters in the end is the actual item (the WS). Then people will hoard the items (or use em), and prices will infinitely increase.

    Back to the facts. Prices decreasing atm is actually an indicator that a future crash/hyper-inflation is going to happen.

    Let's say Kimmy has 1 bil mesos & is farming like 100m per day from Gobies. Kimmy tries to spend her money, but everything is so cheap. Zak helm, gene 30, attack work gloves, etc etc. After buying everything, Kimmy still has around 1 bil mesos. By next week, Kimmy has 2 bil mesos. The mesos keep generating, but theres less and less to spend it on, except WS & Chaos scrolls.

    Now this is what Divine is prophecizing (our ML Economy Messiah). WS & Chaos (items) are the what'll matter & mesos become meaningless since everyone (or at least the people that matter the real end game folks) will just have so much of it.
     
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  16. OP
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    DivineArrow
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    DivineArrow Horny Mushroom

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    Thanks guys^ my answer is based of the 2 recent posts
     
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  17. Danny07
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    Danny07 Pink Teddy

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    Yo. I'm Nub and I matter. Nub lives matter! NLM!!! NLM!!!!
     
  18. Shinohara
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    Shinohara Headless Horseman

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    Once upon a time, JMS and MSEA had a 500,000,000 crafting meso sink in Neo Tokyo but that was an extreme case of combating the hyper-inflation brought upon by hackers.

    Using mesos for specific nx stuff like Megaphones or untradeable AP resets does sound good imo but whether it fits into game balance is another topic on its own i guess. SlimeSealed
     
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  19. Kimmy
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    Kimmy Administrator Staff Member Administrator Game Moderator

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    alright, that makes more sense. Items increasing in price cause demand is getting lower and lower. Though I would personally think it will only get cheaper and cheaper instead, which is not a good thing eitherway, because mesos gain stays same and spend mesos get lower and lower

    So here's some stuff listed

    SMEGAS for Mesos:
    This one will simply not happen because it will become a spammy mess. SMEGAS here are already much cheaper NX wise, and because people value their NX they are less likely to spend it to spam the server with nonsense, besides some quitters that have trouble leaving the server ;)

    (UNTRADABLE) AP reset for mesos:
    This is one I am most neutral on since AP resets is something users want spend NX on anyway, and mesos would just increase the speed... nothing bad really besides speeding the progress with the risk of using your mesos to not be able to spend it on other things such as items and WS/CS... which will in end slow it again. Pretty balanced, really. It also give people reaching end game and only still need to wash to use their mesos on something different than WS/CS/PAC etc

    Random box of random items:
    Can't give too much thought on this until its well established
    ---
    Gobys:
    This is something that never left our discussion, really. We said multiple times that our nerf was very gentle, and I still stand on that. If more drop balances will be made, Gobys have a high chance to get nerfed further

    Gachapon rates:
    We are still active observing the Gach logs. If nerfs will be made, the legendary rates from Cash Gachapon will most likely be reverted first back to old rates, while keeping hunting the sane. We keep in mind however Christmas is coming soon.

    I want to thank you for this topic though because what you say and are concerned about is a very valid thing. I do think however you switch the result, but either result swapped or not is bad for the server, so something should be done.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
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  20. aiko
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    As for my personal suggestions to meso sinks (without regarding the feasibility of implementing such suggestions):
    • Increasing NLC potion costs - looking at the potions that existed before NLC, all their MP/Meso ratios were relatively the same at around 0.5 MP/meso upload_2017-12-6_1-3-44.png . In comparison, the Sorcerer Elixir has a ratio of 1 (1500 mp for 1500 mesos), and the Mana Bull and Ginger Ale have even better ratios depending on your total MP. Not only this, but Sorcerer Elixirs and Mana Bulls are also more efficient in terms of inventory slot usage as they can both hold 150 potions per slot while every other potion can only hold 100. Despite their higher MP/meso ratio they also have a higher potions/slot ratio. While this is not really a fault of Legends, it seems like something that could be balanced considering that this scheme effectively costs lower levels more mesos/mp than higher levels even though lower levels have a much lower meso generation rate than higher levels.

    • Death Penalty - currently, death does not represent much of a big deal aside from a loss in XP (which can be canceled out with the use of Safety Charms). Apart from situations in boss runs, death is a fairly forgiving mechanic and is somewhat hard to accomplish given the availability of pet auto-hp/mp and %HP/MP potions. Thus, I would suggest an additional penalty to death which is to lose a certain amount of mesos (based on some variable). This would then encourage players to be more vigilant in riskier situations (which may encourage the usage of more potions which would cost mesos) and or risk losing mesos.

    • NX for Mesos - as mentioned in the OP and other threads, the option of allowing certain NX items (still untradeable) to be bought with mesos has been considered. While I'm still on the fence on the ability to buy items such as Megaphones, AP Resets and owls, I do think that the ability to buy certain cosmetic options might be a good method to make a meso sink. As mentioned above, some sort of lottery-type item that contained a random cosmetic NX item may be a nice way for players to spend mesos given that players are still faced with a choice to spend mesos on a NX item that they may never use or to use their NX for a guarantee to get an item of their liking. Having rare or otherwise unobtainable NX items may also prompt players closer to the end-game to also spend mesos on such a sink given the inability to get these items through other means. This is probably (?) the most controversial idea, and I'm also unsure how much I would like it to be implemented though I do believe it would be an effective sink.

    • Higher Costs for Services - to this point I would like to propose the idea that players have the choice to either save mesos or save time through various services in Maple. One example is the taxi system, which allows players in Victoria to quickly travel between towns without having to walk there. However, many players find no qualms about needing to take the taxi given its incredibly low cost. Particularly as players get higher and higher and can generate mesos more effectively than lower players, it may make sense to increase the costs of these services by some proportional amount (which would probably still be too low to really make players care, but would still be more effective at removing mesos from the game). Other options may be to incorporate some sort of "fast-travel" to skip boats in exchange for an appropriate sum of mesos or add potions that would provide temporary buffs (like Agent O's Encouragements but perhaps a lower time duration)

    • More Collectibles? - in the same sense as the Eraser quests (which I cannot remember if they have a meso cost to completing the quest but that might also be a way to introduce another meso sink), it may be a good idea to introduce more quests that featured some sort of collectibles that would need to be turned in along with some amount of mesos to receive a random reward such as new chairs.

    • Meso Costs for Instanced Bosses - this seems somewhat self-explanatory, but for those individuals who can run instanced bosses, I believe that they are more representative of the higher end of wealth. And in particular, given the high profits earned from potential boss drops being sold, it seems that a small "tax" to these boss runs may help provide a sink. This may also help create an (albeit small) artificial value to which certain boss drops would be forced to stay above and help stabilize prices.
    A lot of these ideas are probably somewhat controversial given that they all deviate from what we know as "nostalgic" and represent changes that, to my knowledge, did not exist in GMS. And while I personally think that the current state of the economy is/has been fine, I do think that players have a right to be concerned, especially given that most virtual economies move towards inflation and even Royals has been experiencing some severe inflation (though for a different reason).
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
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