post patch tier list discussion

Depends on context. Low level, high level, low funding, high funding, specific boss fights, etc

in general though if I had to guess it’d look something like
S+: Night Lord
S: Bucc
S-: Bowmaster, Marksman
A+: Corsair
A: Paladin
A-: Bishop
B+: Shadower, Dark Knight
B: Hero
B-: F/P
C: I/L

 

This tier list is essentially a general one. I personally don't give PB 90% of the weight (Though it's definitely important) on a tier list and do take account performance in other bosses,

S: NL, Corsair
A: MM, BM, Bucc (This tier I'm not sure on an order)
B+: Paladin, Darks
B: Hero
C: Shad
D: I/L, F/P, Bish

S: For S tier NL the 2nd highest overall DPM class and since their performance on PB is so good, I'll put them on S
Corsair does the highest damage in essentially EVERY other boss which i personally believe has a high value (probably with the exception of some Elemental bullshit paladin can do).

A: MM and BM are solid DPS classes and have SE .
I put bucc in A tier because they are slightly lower dmg compared to archers (atleast on dummy bosses) but they have an essential role at PB, Auf (hopefully itll be good one day) and provide SI/TL. I'm leaning towards bucc as the highest A tier.

B+: Paladin does pretty solid single target in most bosses and absolutely crush elemental weak boss (Can easily move them to S tier on elemental bosses) but i'll put them here since they don't provide much besides damage and not the best pick in every boss (also meh at pb)
Darks: This one i'm not too sure about but if we were to assume 50% up time on hyper zerk damage wise I think they'd land around archers (or higher) damage wise plus provide HB. The big issue I have is estimating how good of a use can be made out of active zerk in more important content without being too death prone i.e pb statue phase or aufheben.

B: Hero with decent usage of panic heroes actually don't do much less damage than archers but their utility and damage is still worse. I decided to give it their own tier as their damage is actually not as low given even decent panic usage.


C:Shadowers: Currently do the lowest single target out of physical attackers but they perform better than other melees at PB and have smoke so i'd say there are roughly around here. I'd move them to B tier if they had a more pivotal role instead of just picking them since there aren't more NLs in the pool.

D:I just lumped all the mages in a single tier because I don't have much of an opinion on them. Could probably argue bishop is higher assuming no muling.

 

PB tier list in the current meta

 

I'm not exactly sure if this is a bad take so it's mostly a question. Wouldn't you say that if you compared a good shad player vs a good corsair player, corsairs would probably be on a tier of their own (above shad)?
In the same spirit if we compare a good BM vs a good MM they'd be in a similar tier as you highlighted. I feel like the inverse wouldn't be true though. I'd take a bad shad over a bad corsair and i'd take a bad mm over a bad bm.

 

I'd say corsair vs shad is debatable. A bad shad is certain more valuable than a bad corsair due to their survivability, but the survivability difference is very significant even if its a good shad vs a good sair. Even with 30k hp, if there is no bishop healing on seduce (and often there isn't), the corsair will more often than not die to a 10 sec sed, However, given the proper support, a good corsair will do significantly more damage. Long story short, I'd say in the case where the sair is well funded/high level and has full party buffs + a bishop healing them, they are for sure a tier above shad, but in the typical scenario its far easier and safer to fit a shadower in a run.

 

I dont know about how hyper zerk goes for drk damage, but:

1- dk is one of best 3rd job, easy to grind, dont need leech (Warriors in general after u can hit taipei mobs goes faster than leech in alot of mobs)

2- with warrior is easy reach 30k hp clean, with (self) hb is easier

3- when challenge come, hb will be nice for alot of content with casual players

i think drk is a pretty solid option especialy for new players

 

Since we're talking about the impact of HP challenges and DK buffs, this is my tier list for new players who just want to play 1 character

% of activities you can participate in easily is the most weighted factor.
Other considerations include Maximum HP, economy, how rewarding each activity is, how useful the class is if you decide to reroll a new char.

S+: Buccaneer
S: Paladin
A: DK
B: Corsair, MM, BM, Shad
C: Bishop, AM, Hero
D: NL

S+: Even without reaching 30k HP, Bucc belongs in S+ because they do it all. 30k HP is even possible in theory, but you would need a lot of patience and INT gear.

S: Paladin does excellent single target damage, amazing to mediocre cleave damage based on situation, they're desirable at almost every boss, and like all warriors can easily reach 30k HP

A: DK would be S+ tier if there were more cleave content in the game. Very versatile class on their own, HB makes it a complete package. The recent DK buffs make up for a lot of their main weakness of mediocre damage.

B: These classes offer a lot of damage and/or utility. They're only held back by low HP maximum. SE is an amazing buff, while Corsair and Shad have the advantage in farming.

C: Mages are very strong at farming, but less popular at Bosses. Bishop gets muled too often to put them higher on the tier list. Mages honestly do a shocking amount of DPS while offering utility, but the reality is you will encounter some parties that are reluctant to bring a mage as an attacker, you'll have to prove yourself in situations where others do not.

Hero's only flaw is that DK fills the same role of cleave warrior except also has HB

D: The daily life of a single client NL as far as I can tell is Do APQ > Hold down Triple Throw at Zak / HT > Sit in FM. They are very dependent on party buffs to function but offer very little in return aside from single target damage. If you want to do a lot of content, you will likely have to host it.